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Keralabrethren.net: Youth Forum: Rules for using Tongues

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# 00100 :  Rules for using Tongues
Dear SHAREDCONCEPT...... After hearing... rather reading the debate about OTHER tongues...I have only one question to ask you...and please I want a biblical answer: WHY CAN'T THE PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES FOLLOW THE REGULATIONS LAID BY PAUL(LORD 1COR14:36)WHILE USING THE TONGUES IN THE CHURCH. ..AND WHICH PENTECOSTAL CHURCH IS FOLLOWING THESE. (...FOR OUR GOD IS NOT A GOD OF DISORDER BUT OF PEACE(NIV)) JUST FOR YOUR KIND INFORMATION B4 U JUSTIFY PLEASE VISIT ag.org ..the OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD, WHICH ALSO AGREES THAT THESE REGULATIONS SHOULD BE STRICTLY FOLLOWED WHILE SPEAKING IN TONGUES IN A CHURCH...BUT UNFORTUNATELY NONE OF THE PENTACOSTAL CHURCHES I VISITED FOLLOW THESE REGULATIONS.WHY? WHY CANT THE PENTACOSTALS FOLLOW THEIR OWN DOCTRINE.......?
Post by : emmanuel1  View Profile    since : 30 Jan 2006


Reply by : philip2   View Profile   Since : 5 Feb 2006 11:44:05 PM Close
Emmanuel1 how many pentecostal worships you have been to. I know the one's I have been to follow Biblical principles.
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Reply by : samuelphilip   View Profile   Since : 6 Feb 2006 1:50:40 AM Close
Dear Philip2
What is the Biblical Principles! Which is following Pentacostal Church?
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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 6 Feb 2006 7:44:56 AM Close
i have attended number of pentecostal worship meetings and as regards following biblical principles while speaking in tongues, i could'nt find even one of them following the rules.i have a recorded casstte of one of their worship meetings.if anybody is interested i shall send the same,provided the cost of postage and other charges are borne by the person requesting the copy.its such a noisy, confusing place to be in that i feel even a fish market is a better place.a few years back a notice was circulated in our area by one of the pentecostal churches that hindi film actor manoj kumar is bornagain and that particular sunday he would be ministereing the word.out of tremendous curiosity i went with my family to attend the worship meeting.we were looking for manoj kumar but could not find him.we thought he would arrive only at the ministry time.in the meantime shouting ,singing and beating of the country drum accompanied by mass speaking in tounges started and one sister sitting in one corner was simply uncotrollable.within a few minutes on her knees she reached another end shouting oora khambara barabassia and such other words.my wife indicated to me that its hightime we left the place.finally a side actor manoj kumar appeared and we left the place to our assembly.my experience of attending pentecostal meetings has been that one only gets to hear from the speakers, what their achievemts,what their visions,healings they have accomplished.at the end of the meetings if one analyses not a word of the gospel is preached.the emphasis is always on healing and not on the most essential aspect of the message of salvation
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Reply by : philip2   View Profile   Since : 9 Feb 2006 9:21:39 PM Close
Dear wilson609: I would like you understand the pattern of pentecostal worship. You certaily did not have any clue.
(I do not know anything about above mentioned event. There fore I will not defend it nore condemn it.)

There have been lot of propaganda about the confusion and violation of Biblical priciples when speaking in tongues in the pentecostal servieces.

This is a very false notion presented to gullible people who does not understand pentecostal pattern of worship.

when there are special tarry meetings/fasting and prayer people will gather and given time for free woship. This is the individual prayer time. During this time people may praise God in the spirit. This may be singing loud with beating of drums and clapping of hands. This is a time of individual praise.

If there is anyone receives a special word of knowledge often times that person beging to speak and everyone quet down. It have been my experiece when some one has a special word all those who are speaking in tongues often recognizes and stops immediately for that person to speak. This might happen in the process of one person speaking in tongues and another person interpretting it or being interpretted by the speaker.

Second there are time for intercessory prayer. Everyone is encouraged to pray together but be quiet enough for the person leading the prayer to be heared.

When the word is preached no one speaks in tongues. If anyone speak, he/she is asked to be quiet. If the inturruption continues despite the control of the servants of the Lord then it is often understood as demon posesion.

There is a defit order and Biblical pattern is fallowed in most pentecostal servieces. In some places where there no Biblically trained ministers might not know what to be done in certain circumstances. One groups mistake should not be counted as the norm. Your byist should not used when you are looking at the realtiy of the true worship in the spirit.

may The Holy spirit help you to understand the true wors

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Reply by : samuelphilip   View Profile   Since : 11 Feb 2006 12:20:13 AM Close
Dear Philip2

Can I know what is the differents between free worship and true worship; which you mentioned above

Thanks

Samuel

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Reply by : mats   View Profile   Since : 12 Feb 2006 11:35:06 PM Close
Dear Philip2

but i beleive pentecostal groups are loosing their old pattern of worship.They want to worship god by playing all kind of instruments .....Their main focus is to sing some fast track songs..When u stop beating the drums suddenly people also stop praising god ...and stop speeking in tongues this is the fact u have to accept it their may be expections but very few.would like to see ur comments on this

brethren

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Reply by : samuelphilip   View Profile   Since : 13 Feb 2006 5:40:37 AM Close
Dear Philip2

I am a believer and also I was playing Percussion (Drums) for so many Pentecostal Churches in North India. From 1987 to 1990, I had worshipped with a Pentecostal Assembly also. As far as my experience with these Pentecostal Believers, I cannot agree with them that they are actually worshipping the Lord God Almighty. They are just making unwanted voice with Rhythm of Drums which I was playing. Every song which they used for any meeting, (including worship) the “stanza” will be more than three times, after this they all are start making unwanted voice and they are telling that they all are in the Holy Sprit? Now the main problem which I was noticed that, if I stop the Rhythm, they all are suddenly stopping their voice.

I know that they are very helpful to each other. But they are teaching that; if you are able to speak in Tongue, then you got the Holy Spirit?

Kindly tell me is it the Holy Spirit? And is it the Tongue? (Unwanted / unnecessary / unmeaning words) also these words we cannot find in any languages in this world. Do you believe that these unwanted sounds are called “Tongue” which is mentioned in the Bible and occurred in the First Century?

I prayed to my God Jesus Christ; that if it is true; then I also wish speak in tongue. Unfortunately; I was not able to use these types of words;

The above information is not false; it is true; I am an experienced person with Pentecostal Church. This happened with me when I was in North India, relation to my Job. After 3 years worshipping with them, my mind told me to leave from this assembly; I went back to Brethren Assembly.

Continued

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Reply by : samuelphilip   View Profile   Since : 13 Feb 2006 5:41:17 AM Close
Dear Philip2

Continuation

I am also worshiping my God Jesus Christ; but I got a clear picture of my God in my mind i.e. as per Revelation Chapter 1:12-16 (John had seen this Almighty God our Jesus Christ in the island of Patmos)
“I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man, "dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance”.
When John saw him; what he did! (Rev.1:17-18)
“And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
Then how can we make such voices, which do not have any meaning at all; in front of this Almighty / Wonderful God.
We must remember; Hebrew Chapter 12:29
Hebrew Chapter 12:28-29 says that
“Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear”:
“FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.”
MAY OUR GOD BLESS ALL OF US

Samuel

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Reply by : samuelphilip   View Profile   Since : 13 Feb 2006 5:42:51 AM Close
I appologise for typo / grammer error
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Reply by : mats   View Profile   Since : 27 May 2006 11:16:04 PM Close
Dear shared concept and Philip 2

Here i only mentioned about the pentecostal worship style, but for my surprise when i posted a topic saying Why J C Dev got converted in pentecostalism that post was completly deleted which is not correct we have full right to critscise other group but when it comes to our own matter everbody is silient,

Dear Brother Sharedcon/Philip2
i would be intrested in knowing more about this , if you can help me

Rgds

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Reply by : mats   View Profile   Since : 27 May 2006 11:16:38 PM Close
sorry for Typo n Grammer error
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Reply by : sim1   View Profile   Since : 29 May 2006 2:53:47 AM Close
look i told u that, mats brethren people doesnt want to face the truth that is the reason they even deleted my post which i posted on may 28, its my humble request to the web master please do not delete the post ,i have nt wrote anything against of brethren or pentecostal people
mats asked about j c dev ?but what is wrong in that if somebody wants to know the truth and here he/she(mats) like to know something then instead of deleting the post we should help him/her out
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Reply by : mats   View Profile   Since : 1 Jun 2006 8:38:54 AM Close
look Sim ,
its not the matter that anybody is scared,and i beleive brethrens are follwing the right doctrine but the doubt comes when people like J C dev can get converted then something is ther,
and sim please understand this is not the matter of getting converted but why, what was not here in brethren doctrine which he is getting ther, is this because of speaking in tongues.... i dont know

Rgds

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Reply by : nelson   View Profile   Since : 1 Jun 2006 12:38:39 PM Close

Dear ‘mats’

I can understand your heart’s feeling when the webmasters cleansed your post twice. I was actually trying to get your id some how, to give you a word.


This site is not the official brethren assembly site. Brethren Assemblies do not have a head quarter or central body to officially announce such things. So the webmasters of this site have all the freedom to maintain their principles while allowing us free access to their facility. It is mentioned very clearly that this pages are not meant for discussing personal or assembly matters. That is their principle and we have to abide by that.

To say that brethren are scared of the out come of JCD’s departure to the old fold is simply arrogance based on ignorance. It is the responsibility of the local assembly where JCD fellowshipped who got the responsibility to tell others what exactly happened.
‘Niyogam’ one magazine published from Kallissery published some details where it is mentioned that he had to go out due to personal problems with in the assembly, not due to any doctrinal conviction. Get a copy of ‘Niyogam’ you will get more details.

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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 2 Jun 2006 2:16:55 PM Close
There are over 400 million Christians living today who has had experienced the Pentecostal experience, and growing like wild fire. A few of you claimed that you attended Pentecostal services and did not think they were following the word of God. Yet you also read the doctrine which says AG (the largest of the Pentecostal denominations with 60 million people) believe it exactly the way early Christians believed it. Now following your logic about the Pentecostals, if you met people who claim to be Christians (Brethren, Pentes, Ortho) who are living a life of sin, then I’m guessing that you would not be a Christian. Of course there are Pentecostals who are living lives that are not holy. Just like there are Brethrens who are living lives that are not holy.

Also, I have a question, When does the “Indian Brethren” believe speaking in tongues stopped? No where in the Bible it says that.

Stop putting other denominations down. If you feel that speaking in tongues is not for you then don’t. It is not a requirement for salvation. The Bible is very clear on that.

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Reply by : mats   View Profile   Since : 4 Jun 2006 8:55:20 AM Close
Dear Nelson,

yeah thats rite, i do agree with you that this site is not meant for discussing personal or assembly matters. but this is not something personal or assembly matter,but this is indeed a serious issue and we are not bothering is nt it?

Dear BThomas,
you said it rite,
"Pentecostals who are living lives that are not holy. Just like there are Brethrens who are living lives that are not holy"

but both the group try to put other denominations down.


Rgds

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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 4 Jun 2006 12:12:25 PM Close
"but both the group try to put other denominations down."

The fact is that most Pentes don't even know what Brethren is and what they believe.

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Reply by : george9   View Profile   Since : 5 Jun 2006 1:23:29 AM Close
God alone knows y every one is so paranoid abt y JC Dev left the brethren group....

Any way.. I think the best way to know Y ...would be to go to or get in touch with the last assembly tht he used to go to & they would gve u the right pic....

Then u mite get to know tht it was no pentecostal conviction out of the blue...but pure personal resons...

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 5 Jun 2006 9:14:41 AM Close
'bthomas,'

If you read 1 Corinthians, then you will read about the ceasing of speaking in tongues.

This subject is discussed earlier, and you could read that in other threads.

Shalom malekim!!!

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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 5 Jun 2006 12:23:11 PM Close
George P. Koshy wrote in another thread, and I’m guessing that this is what you asked me to look through:
“Before writing about speaking in tongues Paul told them, “Love never fails, but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be done away. “

Now where does it say that it will cease at a particular time?

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Reply by : emmanuel1   View Profile   Since : 26 Jun 2006 3:03:24 AM Close
'bthomas', ' mats',' sim1 '
HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY A CLOCK?...
ANS: IT SHOULD SHOW THE TIME!....ROTATING CLOCKWISE
HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY THE GAME OF FOOTBALL AS 'FOOTBALL'?
ANS: IF IT IS PLAYED ACCORDING TO THE RULES LAID DOWN BY FIFA..!
HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY THE GAME OF CRICKET AS 'CRICKET'?
ANS: IF IT IS PLAYED ACCORDING TO THE RULES LAID DOWN BY ICC..!

GOD IS A SOVEREIGN GOD SO EVEN THOUGH THE BRETHREN BELIEVE THAT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES
TONGUES HAVE CEASED...BUT,..IF GOD DECIDES TO GIVE TONGUES AGAIN(LETS IMAGINE..)HE WILL GIVE THE TONGUES BUT THE CONDITIONS/RULES WUD REMAIN THE SAME..
AS IN 1COR.14.
(WELL I THINK YOU ALL KNOW THAT..I NEED NOT WRITE IT ALL OVER AGAIN.)
I THINK IF PENTECOSTALS USE TONGUES GIVEN BY GOD THEN BRETHREN HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THEM,BUT................
THE TONGUES SHUD B USED AS PER THE "RULES ",
OTHERWISE ANY SCRIPTURAL BELIVER WON'T ACCEPT THAT.
PAUL SAID "DO NOT FORBID USING TONGUES..BUT, LET EVERYTHING BE DONE BY ORDER & DECENTLY"
HOW MANY PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES INTERPRET THE TONGUES IN WORSHIP?
DON'T THEY ALL SPEAK TOGETHER AS AGAINST "2 OR 3"?

"There are over 400 million Christians living today who has had experienced the Pentecostal experience, and growing like wild fire. "
IF 400 MILLION MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN MOHAMMAD I CAN'T SAY THEY ARE RIGHT...
IF 20 MILLION JEHOVA'S WITNESSES DENY THE DEITY OF CHRIST THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEIR VIEW RIGHT...
EVEN IF THE WHOLE WORLD DEFENDS OSAMA BIN LADEN THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME...
TRUTH NEEDS NO NUMBERS TO SUPPORT ITSELF..
IF THE TONGUES ARE USED BY ORDER N DECENCY THEN NO
BRETHREN CAN DENY THE GIFT.
BUT,.. THE TRUTH IS NOT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BUT THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO USE IT IN ORDER...


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Reply by : emmanuel1   View Profile   Since : 26 Jun 2006 3:19:52 AM Close
DEAR MATS & SIM..
"its not the matter that anybody is scared,and i beleive brethrens are follwing the right doctrine but the doubt comes when people like J C dev can get converted then something is ther"

BILLIGRAHAM SAID"One of the most important thing in the ministry of the lord is..DOCTRINAL STABILITY"
I agree that a person should not glue to his traditional teachings and he should always be in the quest for truth and if finds anything wrong (scripturally) with the doctrine he shud follow whats clear in the scripture.But a person cannot come back full circle...can he???
If i am right..JC DEV came to brethren from IPC 30 years back...(personal problems or doctrinal convictions??)then now he has gone back to IPC(personal problems or doctrinal convictions??)
....THE BIG QUESTION IS WHETHER I SHUD OR I CAN TAKE A PERSON SERIOUSLY ,SOMEBODY WHO IS"TOSSED BY THE WIND" AND WAVERS FROM ONE BELIEF TO ANOTHER???????
THINK ABOUT IT BROTHER!!!
GOD BLESS YOU.

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Reply by : terry_martin   View Profile   Since : 26 Jun 2006 5:49:30 AM Close
Dear Brethren(ALL The redeemed),
The one warfare(war of words)which is not spiritual & which has Satan just a mere spectator,is the so often waged war between the Pentecostal bashers & the Brethren bashers.

What one believer believes of The Word is to be obediently practiced by Him/Her & subsequently He/She would enjoy its fruits(God's promise). This then turns to be the testimony that draws others to know the Truth.The Truth will set you free & set others free too.We then dont need any bashing nor any roof-top self praising.
In being humble our Lord performed miracles in this world and transformed the thoughts & beliefs of millions.
Pray for One-another.When you are Happy please share your Happiness and encourage others instead of investigating why others are not Happy & ruin your Happiness too. Let all the preciousness that He is to you and in your life lead you to be that which exhorts and edifies one-another & be a loud praiser of Him. Let us not be find faulters but let us be praise givers.
Evangelising the world has taken a back-seat in our lives and in our assemblies.
Spiritual Growth seems to be supernatural and out of this world for us.
Fellowship is what was experienced & enjoyed by our fore-fathers,which for us is only words message topic.
What we now mean by exhorting and edifying is being sarcastic and judgemental.
The name of the game now is "Only I know-You Dont", "Only I have -You Dont",Only I will Go There-You Wont" and these are the Pentecostal Bashers and Brethren Bashers.
The more you get on with this game the more the injuries you will inflict on each other and more the pain and anguish you will bear.Thats not all- You do grieve the one who gave His all for you and who loves you with an everlasting love.

Please dont look at any man to know The Truth. Look to the one who became man for us.There is a great migration going on and will go on between denominations.These migrations have many reasons to it but one root - SELF.

May we just submit ourselves to Him who is WISE.

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Reply by : tinka   View Profile   Since : 30 Jun 2006 7:06:32 AM Close
Dear brethrens,
May I be permitted to say something. The Pentecostals practice the so-called "speaking in tongues", some of our dear fellow beleivers beleive also. Well the book of 1Corn. tells us that the tongues were a sign for un-beleiving Jews. The pentecostals argue "Who said that its for the Jews only?" Well, instead of going into an arguement, let me show you something. I didn't know there were loads of unbeleivers in their church!!! where actually they practice speaking in tongues. So sorry if I'm hurting someone's "ego".
God bless us, as we continue to learn from His amazing word, which is so clear and so true.
Praise the Lord!
Tinka
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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 1 Jul 2006 12:20:43 AM Close
Good point sister Tinka.
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