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# 01764 :  French Beard
Why is having a french beard becoming an issue these days?
Post by : frenchbeard  View Profile    since : 28 Mar 2009


Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2009 3:33:17 PM Close
I wrote everything in detail yesterday. and one of the moderators deleted it.

I will explain once again.

Why is that our kerala brethren has been very negative when a fellow believer has a french beard?

Most churches do not allow anyone to have a french beard. What is wrong with it? It has gone to the extent that someone with a french beard was rejected to preach from the Word of God on a Sunday Meeting. What is the relation between having a facial hair and Spiritual life.? Why hasn't the same negativity been shown towards people having moustache.

I know a person who looked good with his french beard (cause of his small shin). But one day,a brother told him to take it off, and he looks weird with his moustache.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2009 3:48:42 PM Close
French Beard is a partial beard, mostly covering the lower jaw and around the mouth area. It had been popular among men of all ages in the last 5 years in particular. It is just a beard, not a barometer of spirituality.

There are some articles in KB Forum [Archives] titled ‘TO WEAR OR NOT TO WEAR’. There are about 6 parts and can be seen on the very first page if you click on to the ‘archives’ from the ‘Forum Homes’ page. Few of the best articles I have seen and are worth reading over!

Tom J

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2009 3:54:11 PM Close
hmmm.... I can't read the entire article now, maybe later. If you can point out the part which mentions about beard, that will be helpful.

Thanks

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2009 4:29:17 PM Close
Please read the whole articles whenever time permits. They will help you tremendously. All such issues, Jewelry prohibition, moustaches, beard, hair length, pants, sariees, make- up, shampoo & conditioner [?] etc. all coming from the same root cause – improper understanding of the Bible.

Tom J

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2009 6:01:32 PM Close
"Man looketh upon the outward appearance; God looketh upon the heart." Where do we find this statement?

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 29 Mar 2009 5:29:16 PM Close
Dear brother Samuel,

We can only judge our own motives. We cannot judge the motives of others. God alone knows the secrets of the human heart. We must be very careful not to legislate for others in matters that do not compromise the word of God or the fellowship of His Son. Legality is an ever present danger, about which many scriptures warn us.

Please believe me that I'm not accusing you of this, only warning about the principle. It is very easy to fall into the error of the Pharisees. I know that in my own heart. May I refer you once again to my last reply?

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 29 Mar 2009 7:20:58 PM Close
Dear Brethren,

Until we stop judging people by their looks, and stop honoring people based on the so-called ‘conforming’ looks, we are to be considered disregarding the warnings issued against the Pharisees by our Lord. Such misplaced priorities force our young believers to recognize the hypocrisy among the older generation and react against it.

Bible cares less [does not care] about a person’s appearance as long as the person is modestly dressed. Let us not alienate the young people according the whims and fancies of the ‘mature folks’, by placing hindrances that are unbiblical.

If God wanted a cookie cutter [everyone looking alike] appearance for His people, why didn’t He make everyone with the same exact features? God is the author of kaleidoscopic creation of the universe; but we try to portray God the exactly opposite of what He had revealed to us.

[I had the opportunity to have close or intimate discussions with few young people from the KB background. Many of them are genuine followers of Christ, much better than their parent’s [my] so-called Brethren outlook. Let us not snuff the flame that they show by the Pharisaical instructions.]

Tom Johns, Michigan, USA

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 6:29:06 AM Close
Mr. Samuel V.J.,

Like others mentioned above, we are not to judge people based
on their looks. Judging someone who commits a sin, is
understandable. But having a french beard is not something that
is mentioned as a sin in the Bible ( neither does any facial hair).

One of my relatives told me that over 50 years ago, when the
saree came into fashion, many of our appachens disapproved of
any women wearing one to church. But now what do you see?
Same goes with the moustache. I have nothing against anyone
having a moustache, but I could simply say that 90% of the
kerala brethren have copied the style from our Prem Nasirs,
Mohanlals and Mamootys. You have a moustache, cause you are
comfortable with it and it looks good on you.

This aspect has to do more with culture than the scripture. The
example of the saree I mentioned above, shows you exactly the
same scenario that is happening these days.

It is very sad to see some of our Kerala Brethren not accepting
change even when it is OUTSIDE KERALA. and when it comes to
the extent of making fun for having a french beard, or even
rejected to preach from the Word of God it just goes to show
how close minded our people can be. Yes, that's right, infact, its
gone even further, that evangelists (people who devote their life
for Christ) have not been allowed to preach at certain churches.

This is a classic example of majoring the minor issues.


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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 8:51:24 AM Close
Dear VJ Samuel,

It took me some time to understand you first para. The person
who starts a thread is called a Thread Starter, and not a
moderator.

I don't want to start a fight or anything, but one should think
before they post.

You ever realized who first made this an issue ?? Kerala
brethren. Hence the reason I started the thread to get an opinion
with an issue that existed few years before.

In the first place, this shouldn't be an issue at all.

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Reply by : beracah   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 11:01:21 AM Close
Few Beard stories from the OT:-

1. 2SA 20:9 Joab said to Amasa, "How are you, my brother?" Then Joab took Amasa by the beard with his right hand to kiss him. 10 Amasa was not on his guard against the dagger in Joab's hand, and Joab plunged it into his belly, and his intestines spilled out on the ground.

As much as possible, avoid growing long beard by which you can be taken by someone like Joab.

2. 2 Sam 10:4 So Hanun seized David's men, shaved off half of each man's beard, cut off their garments in the middle at the buttocks, and sent them away.

These men could have avoided all these if they were clean shaven. If something like this happens to any of our boys, ask them to remove the remaining beard also; else choosing to follow the example of David, allow the boys to grow the lost beard.

3. Ezra 9:3 When I heard this, I tore my tunic and cloak, pulled hair from my head and beard and sat down appalled.

If you have good beard and long hair, you may pull them out when distressed, like Ezra. But, beware of Nehemiahs, who may pull out others’ hair. Nehe 13:25

4. EZE 5:1 "Now, son of man, take a sharp sword and use it as a barber's razor to shave your head and your beard. Then take a set of scales and divide up the hair. 2 --------, burn a third of the hair with fire inside the city. Take a third and strike it with the sword all around the city. And scatter a third to the wind.

This is symbolic and more dramatic; shaving head and beard with a SHARP SWORD and dividing the HAIR by WEIGHT etc. Striking the hair all around the city will be seen by many. Scattering hair to the wind must be done carefully without inviting trouble from others.

If you notice any errors in my treatment of these “beard stories”, they are accidental and please correct them.

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 2:14:50 PM Close
Dear 'beracah',

Your post above is comical and trivializes references to the beard in the Word of God.

Facial hair in the appropriate places is given by God to men. It was God's intent that men have facial hair, while women don't. It will come as no surprise that facial hair makes a man look more masculine (this applies to women with facial hair too). Men with no facial hair appear soft and feminine.

In the OT, men prized facial hair as a symbol of their masculinity and virility. To be devoid of facial hair would be like being a 'eunuch' - something men in all ages are averse to. Therefore we must not trivialize references to facial hair in the OT.

In the modern day there is concerted effort by world and Satan to emasculate men and manliness. That is why facial hair is looked down upon. Since the clean shaved man is considered the model man, partial shavers like those with french beards have a field day - on the one hand they want to emulate the modern clean look and on the other, they want to show off their masculinity with a little cleverly located sprouts.

A french beard stands out because clean shaven faces have become the norm. Men have bowed to the pressure from society to shave their faces completely and thus take their manliness a few notches down and become more feminine like. It has not helped that preachers and evangelists also adopted a clean shaven "holy" look. I am not legalistic about this - but men ought to embrace their masculinity and grow a beard and mustache and keep it clean. It is God's gift to men. Why say no to what God gave us?

When men grow proper beards and mustaches, french beards will completely disappear. I mean, in the company of men, who will want to look like a 14 year old boy?

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Reply by : godly277   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 5:09:53 PM Close
Dear brethren,

I tried keeping mustache but found out that its good to look having mustaches but time and effort for maintaining it is much, so i decided to have clean shave as its easy !!!! So is the case of French Beard as it takes much more time than the ordinary one!!! I think , there is no wrong in keeping beard as John Miller posted that God looks the heart of a man. But , here the point is the "time". If we have much time to spend for maintaining it and thinking about it, then no wrong in keeping a french beard .

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 5:57:46 PM Close
Dear vjsamuel..

I'm sorry to say this but our elders are so narrow minded that there is no point in explaining them. Like you said, I guess we will have to get used to it now, and in the future it won't be a problem.

@beracah

What is the point you are trying to make? and please do not use Old Testament verses. There is a verse in the OT that speaks of trimming the edges of your beard. It was directed to certain sect of people, and it does not have anything to do with moustache/beard.

@godly227

I have a french beard. My time spend on it is a mere 10 min in the space of 3 days.

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 6:00:54 PM Close
@ moses2006.

Could you please explain when you say "When men grow proper beards and mustaches, french beards will completely disappear"?

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 30 Mar 2009 6:37:18 PM Close
Dear 'frenchbeard'

I don't know if you know malayalam or not, but let me assume that you do. There is relevant saying that is well applicable to answer your question you raised to me. It goes as follows:

MOOK ELLATHATHORAD DESHATTIL, ARRA MOOKEN RAJAV(translated to English - In the land of people with no noses, the half-nosed man will become the king!)

Same goes for people with french beards. That is what I meant by my statement "When men grow proper beards and mustaches, french beards will completely disappear". If you think about it for while, you will get it.

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Reply by : beracah   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2009 6:55:33 AM Close
Dear Moses,
You are partially right when you said my posting is comical, but certainly I won’t trivialize beard; because I have a full beard and moustache. I was the only bearded believer in our Assembly for a long time and quite recently an young man with full beard has moved in.

Some of our boys, I have seen occasionally with French beards and one day it is there and in a few days it is gone. I don’t see strands of ungodliness or worldliness in their facial hair, whatever the shape of their beard.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2009 1:15:27 PM Close
Dear Bro Samuel & others,

Brethren and particularly Kerala Brethren claim that we are bound only by the scriptures and most other denominations are bound by the traditions. There are some truths in it. Yet discussions of this nature make me question the validity of such claim.

Does Bible [God] really care who keeps moustache, beard, partial beard, haircuts, make up etc.? There is one demand from the scriptures – be modest.

I greatly respect Brother Samuel as a genuine believer from his writings. But my dear brother, you are bound by the traditions set by the Brethren [KB], without opening your eyes to what is important in the Bible. You place such traditions above the word of God and in sheer innocence you would stifle the growth of many around you.

I wrote this so clearly, because I feel that you would take my comment in the right sense and not as a criticism. Even though I never met you in person I love you as a dear brother and believe you have the heart and the potential to be of great help to many.

Examine every KB traditions under the light of scriptures, and unless they pass the test do not try to place them on people. My comments are not strictly pointed to Bro Samuel they are to many others who share such views. Sad to say, in our enthusiasm to be biblical, Bible is placed under the shadows of KB traditions, when it comes to matters such as the one being discussed.

Regards,

Tom Johns, MI - USA

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2009 2:35:03 PM Close
FrenchBeard,

Why is having a french beard becoming an issue these days?

Maybe it has to do with tradition. I think some in older KB generation is stuck in their own traditions instead of being willing to change if needed without conflicting with scriptural instructions or guidelines.

When Hannah was praying, moving her lips and not making any sound in the temple, Eli the priest thought she was drunk. Maybe it's not Eli's fault but maybe according to Eli's understanding, people have to pray either loudly or in their mind without any movement. But as br. John Miller quoted and as the word of God (our first and last authority for all matters) says "Man looketh upon the outward appearance; God looketh upon the heart."

Using french beard as a reason for condemnation is immature. I remember someone once said that one youngster missed a sunday morning and the elder came up to him the next week and scolded him. The youngster told him back something like "Till now you never bothered to meet me or even talk to me. But I miss one Sunday morning and here you are scolding me". When I was young, I was scolded for wearing black pants and black shirt. Then you can see some assemblies being criticized if shoes are allowed to be worn inside. I go to an assembly here in the US where the breaking of bread is in the evening (I can imagine the condemnation that might come if I tell this in Kerala... I've already seen some eye brows raised)...well, on a lighter note, we have the Lord's supper... not the Lord's breakfast. But then, even in the gulf, most assemblies have breaking of the bread on a Sunday evening but that's okay right?

Reminds me of what Jesus Christ said:

Mathew 23:
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2009 4:13:43 PM Close
@ samuel VJ.

The situation is everyone is pointing to that one person who made this an issue.

I guess there is always some dictator in any brethren church.

What really ticks me off is people asking me to remove my french beard. I was once approached by this women after church asking me to take it off. and the female who asked me to remove is the number 1 gossiper (I'm judging her gossiping based on experience and everyone elses). That is when I lost all respect for the women.

When it goes to the extent of not letting one preach from the Word of God because of his french beard, it just goes to show how people put traditions over scripture.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2009 10:47:06 PM Close
Dear ‘frenchbeard’,

As I read your postings I begin to realize that someone didn’t allow you to share from the scriptures because you had the beard. If this happened in your home assembly and if you harbor resentment towards this person, you have a responsibility to address it by using the steps found in Matt 18.

But if this happened in another place and you hardly have any contact with the person any more, your posting is justifiable for the sake of others. I am hoping the Matt 18 principles are not violated while some of us are commenting on these issues. Before publishing your comments about the woman who has talked to you, you know that you have a resposnsibilty addressing it with her. After all, she addressed it directly to you, if I understood you correctly.

Tom Johns, MI - USA

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Reply by : jesusmyall   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2009 10:58:32 PM Close
frenchbeard: This is a silly topic. Maybe someone is against this at your church but ask him if Jesus had a beard. If His Lord had a beard than why not you? Second, Galatians 5:6 says "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." God does not look at the outward but the inward attitude that we have.
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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 7 Apr 2009 1:50:26 PM Close
Dear French Beard

Once I see and believer with French Beard was delivering a message in front of group of believers. I do not think the French Beard is the reason, not to give the word ministry rather it is the maturity and testimony before the congregation.

Facial hairs are the God given to the male, when it is fashioned to certain level it may be some difficulty with some believers as you are facing. French beard is definitely has some connection with French culture/tradition it has been adopted by others.

Dear jesusmyall

God is looking at the heart, definitely a regenerated, humble heart of the person with love towards God is the one who God accept and bless. The same time, such a person definitely show outwardly what is inside and also there is scriptural instruction that dress will be modesty, men should not grow hair (head), not to conform to the world etc.

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 7 Apr 2009 5:25:15 PM Close
Dear sambudhanoor.

The moustache originated from Europe ( France or Italy). Most beards have originated long back by the Europeans.

As far as I know, the person who was not allowed to preach has good testimony and is 'mature'

Elders should not bring their personal issues in church matters.

Sambudhnoor, are you implying that having a French Beard is not dressing modestly?

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 8 Apr 2009 1:25:23 PM Close
Dear French beard

Almighty God is the originator of male facial hairs, the moustache and beard, if an adult man do not shaven, this will grow, but it has shaped in to certain fashion must have a place of originating like french beard.

Modesty cannot generally said, it will differ from place to place and time to time as per the cultural settings.

Example - Place:
“Mundu/Dhoti” piece of cloth worn by males in Kerala and Tamilnadu is a modesty in that places but if someone wear it and walk in the street of London or Paris someone might question and it is not a modesty dress in their cultural settings.

Example – Time:
In Kerala’s older generation pants was not a modesty dress, but presently it is modesty and comfortable and widely accepted.

As far as a believer in Christ is concerned if any of my action is a hindrance or stumbling block to anybody else in my fellowship, I have prayerfully consider to change, if possible, this is humble suggestion and supported by the following scriptural verses.

1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

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Reply by : frenchbeard   View Profile   Since : 8 Apr 2009 5:40:17 PM Close
Example – Time:
In Kerala’s older generation pants was not a modesty dress, but presently it is modesty and comfortable and widely accepted.

I don't know about pants, but saree faced rejection in the older days. yet, because it was in fashion that time, the women wore it, and continues to wear it.

French Beard is comfortable for the people who have it. Again, the mustache wasn't in the Malayalee culture. One man put it, and now everyone puts it.


'As far as a believer in Christ is concerned if any of my action is a hindrance or stumbling block to anybody else in my fellowship, I have prayerfully consider to change, if possible, this is humble suggestion and supported by the following scriptural verses'

Believers tend to misuse this statement from the Bible.

I'm quite amused by the fact that french beard/ or any kind of beard for that matter, will be an hindrance to others in fellowship. I could understand if someone's jealousy, backbiting, gossiping is a hindrance ( something that is common these days). But no, people are so bothered when someone has a french beard.

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Reply by : p.josephraju   View Profile   Since : 8 Apr 2009 11:07:50 PM Close
I am very excited to see this thread. Finally our brethren found an issue to bash the men with. All these years we bashed our sisters mercilessly with various issues. They got a break!!

P. Joseph Raju

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Reply by : phantom   View Profile   Since : 14 Apr 2009 5:42:00 AM Close
It is amazing how standards keep changing and how the Visible (hairstyles, clothes) is always critiqued but the invisible (pride, anger) almost always goes scot free!
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Reply by : bobbz   View Profile   Since : 17 Mar 2016 11:47:19 AM Close

I have a dream, that there will come a day where my spirituality is not judged by the length of my beard and its shape..where the so called spiritual achayans, mature and will have more beneficial and relevant topics for discussion. Those intolerant achayans broaden up their mind and learn to see the bigger picture..

 

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 23 Mar 2016 7:03:15 PM Close

Greetings,

Just saw this post and I initally thought it was 'french bread'. And was wondering what is the new discussion on bread all about. Thankfully, it was not. :-)

It really doesn't matter if you have a french beard or not. Christ has called you to be a simple and humble human being like he was. If the spirit of God in you does not prick you or is grieved. You have your confidence in the Lord. If you are meek and have a good testimony before God and man, then go ahead, shave and model away :-).

Just as an example. I have seen elderly brothers/sisters wearing pure gold watches and designer spectacles making fun of new believers who wore simple ornaments. Hope you understand the irony of the matter.  We still pray to the Lord for reasoning. 

All these matters, as the writer in Ecclesiastes are meaningless as a matter fact.

Regards,

Joe.

 

 

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