KeralaBrethren.net
New User? Register Today!
Registered Users, LOGIN
What we believe (Eng) What we believe (Mal) About Us Contact Us
Forums Home General Forum Youth Forum Sisters Forum Archives (2005-2007) Archives (2001-2004)
Listing of Brides Listing of Grooms
Assemblies in Kerala Evangelists in India Instituitions in India
Christian Albums Christian Songs
Audio Sermons Bible Wallpapers Brethren Links KB History (Eng) KB History (Mal)

K E R A L A  B R E T H R E N
Youth Forum

Forums Home ::
This Message Forum is to discuss spiritual topics only. Please avoid personal or assembly matters.
Let us use this facility for our spiritual enrichment and for bringing glory to our Lord almighty.
Webmasters reserve the right to delete any topic or posting partly or completely from this forum.
View Topics :: :: Post new topic


Keralabrethren.net: Youth Forum: Marrying a girl who is elder to the guy

Post Reply
Go to bottom of the page

# 00190 :  Marrying a girl who is elder to the guy
Hi, This is a doubt that many of my friends from various christian denominations ask me. I want to give them all a convincing answer if u people could help me out with this. My question is "Is marrying a girl who is elder to the guy right or wrong in the sight of God or according to the word of God?". I have asked this to various believers and pastors and have got mixed opinion about this.One reason that people dont agree to this is due to the biological reasons. But apart from that is it really wrong in the sight of God or is it something that is not according to the will of God ? So i would like to know ur opinion regarding this and it would be beneficial if u could support ur opinions in the light of the word of GOD?. sincerely seeking ur help regarding this matter.
Post by : joshuavic  View Profile    since : 19 Jan 2008


Reply by : tinka   View Profile   Since : 21 Jan 2008 1:49:17 AM Close
I've heard of some beleivers (brothers) who have married women much elder to them. I think one of who was the president of Back to the Bible, before the present one(Woodrow Kroll). This is not a certified data, but thats what I heard.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : joshuavic   View Profile   Since : 21 Jan 2008 9:51:15 PM Close
ok...thats just an example.Even i have come across many examples. But as children of God we cannot go by examples. I just wanted to know whether there are any biblical evidences or proofs for this.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : keralabrethren1   View Profile   Since : 22 Jan 2008 5:17:31 AM Close
There is nothing regarding the age of couple in the Bible. But the biblical standard is husband is elder than the wife. Adam was older than Eve. Abraham was around 10 years older than Sara. Isaac was older than Rebecca and Jacob than Leya.

We cannot standardise these facts. In the epistle too Paul writes, woman is made for man which implies man was made little earlier.

The physique also recommends that man should be older than wife, due to several reasons like, early puberty, early maturity, early bodily weakness etc.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : johnwilliams   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2008 10:38:13 PM Close
>>apart from that is it really wrong in the sight of God or is it something that is not according to the will of God ?

There is nothing wrong in marrying a woman who is older than you by any number of years and it is not against the will of God. The Bible has been silent on this matter which means we cannot be legalistic on it.

Whether there will be practical issues due to this is a totally different matter.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jacob1968   View Profile   Since : 21 Feb 2008 5:40:28 AM Close
there is no written guidelines for age factor but, one thing is clear wife is always obediant, submissive and respectful, if the older wife is always do this, i do not think it is against the will of god
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 21 Feb 2008 3:46:38 PM Close

Are there instances recorded in the scripture where men married women older to them?
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jacob1968   View Profile   Since : 24 Feb 2008 7:43:16 AM Close
in israel there was a rule given by lord allmighty thru moses when brothers living together, and if one brother died without children his duty is to carry on on his brothers name by marrying the widow -: in that scriputers god had never indicated the age is a factor. also i do not think you have all records of marriage that had taken place through out the bible agewise. if you have pls send to me also for my ref. also pls note if you want to still argue this is not the place as lot of unbelivers/weaker section(infaith)are watching.

if you need i will give you my phone no. and email id- i am in new delhi.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 27 Feb 2008 2:34:05 PM Close
I don't think there are instances except for the possibility where in the law, the younger brothers could marry the widow of the older brother who died.

But whether there are or not does not matter as this area is not addressed in the Bible directly or indirectly. As John said we cannot be legalistic here.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : thomasba   View Profile   Since : 23 Mar 2008 1:29:42 AM Close
We do not see any explict instruction in the bible prohibitting marriage between elder woman and a younger man. However, it is desirable to adhere to common practice of marriage between a man who is elder and woman who is younger to him. This helps in being submissive as we have a natural inclination to respect those who are older to us.

Also read: 1 Tim 2:13 - For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 23 Mar 2008 5:04:07 PM Close

Please also read the following verse.

1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

I believe this verse negates all arguments for the subject under this thread and clears all doubts.

joshuavic please quote this verse to your friends.

God bless

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 11:12:04 AM Close
How did anyone conclude that 1 Tim 2:13 and 1 Cor 11:9 has anything to do with age between a husband and wife? These two verses are quoted in issolation and out of context here. The relavent portion preceeding the verse and after it clearly refers to a Woman's conduct within the assmebly and not on the difference between the age of two people who desire to marry each other.

The bible should be our basis for all matters of faith and practice. We can follow customs though. But that does not entitle us to make legalistic rules out of them.

I know a few God fearing older woman who are married to younger God fearing men and have no issues with respect to submission. At the same time, we also know younger wives who have not submitted to their husbands on certain matters.

Submission does not depend on age for a child of God. It depends on how much you are inclined to obey the word of God. Being younger does not mean that you automatically obey the word of God more than an older woman.

On another note, where in the Bible does it say that ADAM was OLDER than Eve???

What was the age of Adam when he was created and what was the age of Eve when she was created?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 4:49:15 PM Close

In the Scriptures it is nowhere mentioned that in a husband wife relationship the husband should be older or not (please advise if it is otherwise).

Believer.bible writes “THE BIBLE SHOULD BE OUR BASIS for all matters of FAITH AND PRACTICE. We can follow customs though. But that does not entitle us to make legalistic rules out of them”.

The writer then continues citing FEW EXAMPLES where there are God fearing couples where the wife is older than the Husband and bringing in a new subject of submission of wives to their husbands. THIS IS OUT OF CONTEXT and the subject under this thread need to be discussed exclusively.

As far as I understand even in the secular world IT IS ONLY AN EXCEPTION that wives are older than the husbands. These instances may have happened under unavoidable circumstances beyond their control. (I am not here to condemn such marriages but am strongly opposed to the logic that something is allowed because the Bible doesn’t explicitly forbid it). Similarly there are isolated cases in the Christendom also where younger men married older women.

Again, as far as I know “ALL” unmarried men seek younger women as their life partners. I haven’t come across any young man saying “I want to marry a woman older than me”. Similarly the young women also don’t think or say vice versa. Check all the matrimonial columns of the print media and the matrimonial web sites.

The argument citing some exceptions therefore do not hold good. THIS MUCH AS FAR AS PRACTICE IS CONCERNED.

1/2

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 4:51:43 PM Close

2/2

AS REGARDS ‘BIBLE SHOULD BE OUR BASIS FOR ALL MATTERS OF FAITH’ may I, with all humility ask, what is the Biblical basis for assuming that one may marry a woman older than him?

‘On another note’, I understand from the first two chapters of Genesis that Adam was older than Eve.

Gen.1: 27 so God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE AND FEMALE CREATED HE THEM. (Does this mean that Adam and Eve were of the same age?).

Gen. 2: 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, MADE HE A WOMAN, AND BROUGHT HER UNTO THE MAN.

Is this not sufficient proof that Eve was younger to Adam? In this context please read
1 Tim. 2: 13 and a Cor. 11:9.

As regards your last question, do we need not know the age of Adam and eve when they were created? Do you intent to say that God created Eve older than Adam?

What difference would it make if he was one year old or hundred years old when God created him? He was created by God as a “FULLY GROWN MAN” and not as a child.

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 11:25:02 PM Close
Dear Mathew,

You said:

"The writer then continues citing FEW EXAMPLES where there are God fearing couples where the wife is older than the Husband and bringing in a new subject of submission of wives to their husbands. THIS IS OUT OF CONTEXT and the subject under this thread need to be discussed exclusively."

I don't understand how this is "out of context". What is the title of the thread and what is "out of context" with the example I have stated in the context of the thomasmba who said

"However, it is desirable to adhere to common practice of marriage between a man who is elder and woman who is younger to him. This helps in being submissive as we have a natural inclination to respect those who are older to us."

The point I was making is that age may have nothing to do with a wife submitting to a husband. So kindly explain how this is "out of context" with respect to the discussion

You also said:

"As far as I understand even in the secular world IT IS ONLY AN EXCEPTION that wives are older than the husbands. These instances may have happened under unavoidable circumstances beyond their control."

Some people in the secular and Christian world do not even consider the age issue seriously since they have more important things to consider. This is very common in today's world and has nothing to do with "unavoidable circumstances beyond their control.". Now you are quoting "FEW EXAMPLES". Is this also "out of context"?

But my point is even if it is issolated, who are we to judge whether this is sinful or not when the Bible does not condemn it in any way?

You cite sterio types and matrimonial columns AWAY Bibllical instructions toward's Men's customs/traditions and then make the rule in favour of men's customs.

No matter how issolated this is, if the word of God does not condemn it, on WHAT BASIS do YOU condemn it? Is this not similar to what the pharasees did when the disciples plucked corn on a sabbath?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 11:35:29 PM Close
You also said:

"AS REGARDS ‘BIBLE SHOULD BE OUR BASIS FOR ALL MATTERS OF FAITH’ may I, with all humility ask, what is the Biblical basis for assuming that one may marry a woman older than him?"

Simple: the Bible no where directly or indirectly instructs or even aludes to condemning a man marrying a woman of any age unless under age (Gen 38:11). You cannot simply cook up a rule that is convenient for you without Biblical backing. That is what the pharasees did and we know the Lord's response to them.

Reading Genisis, God simply created Adam and Eve. On the day they were created, they're "perceived" age was as of a man. They were not born as babes 1 day old. So if you would see Adam on the day he was created, he would look like a man - say 25 years old or 30 years old but that was the first day of his existance. Same for Eve.

With this in mind, just because Adam was created first in no way hints anything about the "percieved" age. It just tells that Eve was created later and absolutely nothing about their age.

What if God created Adam with a perceived age of 25 and Eve with a perceived age of 26? Will you deny that God could do this? On what basis do you deny that God could do this?

You do not have a single Bible verse that says that Adam was older than Eve. The word of God simply says that Eve was created AFTER Adam. That's it. Anything more is fanciful thinking.

You asked:

"As regards your last question, do we need not know the age of Adam and eve when they were created? Do you intent to say that God created Eve older than Adam?"

My answer is we do not need to know the age of Adam and Eve. But since you mentioned that Adam was older than Eve, I am asking you back where in the Bible it speaks of Adam's age being older than Eve's. What is my intention? My intention is simply to prove that God has not revealed this to us and we need to make speculations that suit our customs, our preferences and our traditions and become legalistic.


Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 11:55:00 PM Close
You said:
"What difference would it make if he was one year old or hundred years old when God created him? He was created by God as a “FULLY GROWN MAN” and not as a child."

Big difference. The word of God says he created a MAN and not a child, or a boy. God also created a Woman. Not a child, or a girl. Which means that THEY WERE OF AGE.

If God created Adam as a 1 day old Babe boy, and LATER CREATED EVE also as a 1 day old Baby girl, then we know for sure that Adam is older than Eve. However what does the Bible tell us? It tells us that He created MAN and (later) WOMAN. NO AGE IS MENTIONED OR EVEN ALUDED TO.

What were BOTH THEIR AGES?

Neither YOU NOR I can EVER TELL this through what is revealed in the Bible.

When a youngster comes to me and asks many of these practices that we follow and strictly adhere to, we need to give answers that ARE SUPPORTED FROM THE SCRIPTURES else we must simply confess the truth - these are practices, customs and are not condemned by scripture hence we continue to practice them as it is our personal preference.

To legalize and say something is sinful when no scripture instructs or even aludes to is a stumbling block to our youth and also make us, stewards of God's word, loose credibility in their eyes.

If two young believers decide to marry with parent's approval, even if the woman is older than the man, there is absolutely nothing that forbids them to marry.

We need to appeal to scripture for all matters.

There are many things that we do every day that Bible has not talked about yet some believers have classified them as sinful.

Eg: For some penticostal groups - taking medicine is sin. Likewise, keeping moustache and beard is sin.

Likewise, for some Kerala brethren, younger bridegroom marrying older bride is considered sin.

What is their basis? Not from the Bible anyway. If anyone can cook up rules like this without scriptural support, why do we need to depend on the Bible for all matters of faith and practice anyway?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 26 Mar 2008 9:18:17 AM Close
Correction for my post on 25 Mar 2008 23:35:29

"What is my intention? My intention is simply to prove that God has not revealed this to us and we need to make speculations that suit our customs, our preferences and our traditions and become legalistic."

Should be read as


"What is my intention? My intention is simply to prove that God has not revealed this to us and we need NOT make speculations that suit our customs, our preferences and our traditions and become legalistic."

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 4:26:24 PM Close

Believer. bible (dear …….)

As regards THE FIRST PART of your posting please read again carefully my statement which is unambiguous? My reference to “OUT OF CONTEXT” aspect is the “BRINGING IN OF THE NEW SUBJECT OF SUBMISSION” and not the FEW EXAMPLES you cited.
Please remove this first part from your reply so that we may continue the discussion for better understanding of the topic in question.

THE SECOND PART also is based on the abovementioned “OUT OF CONTEXT” aspect. Since I did not say that the FEW EXAMPLES are out of context, my reference to few examples is also NOT out of context.
What I said was exactly the same thing that you said ‘SOME people in the secular and Christian world do not even consider the age issue seriously since they have more important things to consider’. The statement of ‘unavoidable circumstances’ also is in this context. There is no mention of seeking the will of God here which I believe should be the first thing to do and not the more important things when some one thinks about marriage. To me it seems that you would like to accept something to be part of life if it is explicitly not forbidden in the Scriptures. But as for me I believe that we must seek the will of God in all such matters and not to grant it according to the priorities that we set. And if any one has sought the will of God and is convinced that marrying a woman older than him is the will of God, I am no body to question that.
(My mention of the matrimonial columns or men looking for life partners is to say that there are only SOME as you said).

Please read my statement “I AM NOT HERE TO CONDEMN SUCH MARRIAGES ………AND THE LOGIC………..…” Please note the words “I AM NOT”. (I think as regards the ‘Sabbath’ the answer of Jesus is important. “Mat. 12: 8 for the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day”. And this subject of Sabbath I do not wish to discuss on this thread).

1/2

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 4:29:58 PM Close

2/2

In THE THIRD PART I have a sincere request to avoid phrases like “cook up” even though you are at your liberty to use such phrases.
Gen. 38: 11 and your earlier posting on 27 Feb. 08 @ 2:34:05 PM stating “I don't think there are instances except for the possibility where in the law, the younger brothers could marry the widow of the older brother who died”.
These are instances in the Old Testament and does it mean that we have to incorporate this into the New Testament times also?
My reference to ages like 1 or 100 or any other details is that the age of Adam is not mentioned in the Bible and is not important here. My statement “FULLY GROWN UP MAN” has the same meaning as your usage of “THEY WERE OF AGE”.
WE BOTH SAY THE SAME THING that we cannot know the age of Adam and Eve at the time of their creation.
The question was that Adam was older to Eve or not and I do not wish to discuss their AGE as we have the same understanding in common.
Thank you for reminding that ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED ON THE SAME DAY. But we must remember that there were many events that took place or tasks that God performed including the planting of the garden in between the creation of Adam and Eve Gen. 2: 7 - 23. THEREFORE IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT ADAM WAS OLDER THAN EVE.

Regarding the aspect of questions raised by the youngsters I believe that all questions of the youngsters cannot be answered by us. If some one can do it I would admire them and thank God for them and my sincere apologies to them for making a generalised statement. I have faced so many questions by the youngsters and people older to me which were so perplexing. What I prefer to do is prayerfully try to answer them with an advice to take the matter to the Lord for obtaining the correct answers.

I pray that our good Lord give us the wisdom to guide the youngsters and others who come to us for answers for His glory.

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 7:36:09 PM Close
Dear Mathew,

My response to the point on Submission was brought up in the discussion since thomasba mentioned it in 23 Mar 2008 01:29:42. It is therefore relavent and not "out of context" in this discussion.

However, as stewards of the word, let us leave all instances and practices in the secular or christian world in this matter and look to the Bible for answers regarding whether it is sinful for a younger man (believer) to marry an older man (believer) as this is what the discussion is about.

You said: "There is no mention of seeking the will of God here which I believe should be the first thing to do and not the more important things when some one thinks about marriage. "

Yes, we should depend on the will of God-BIBLE. Please read Gen 38:11. The main condition here is that both MAN AND WOMAN SHOULD BE OF AGE.

When it comes to marriage, this is the ONLY aspect of age that the Bible (which is the revealed will of God) tells us.

You also said:

"Thank you for reminding that ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED ON THE SAME DAY."

I never said this. Maybe you can quote me - date and time when I said this. Is this mentioned in the Bible? No. Did I say this? No.

You said:

"But we must remember that there were many events that took place or tasks that God performed including the planting of the garden in between the creation of Adam and Eve Gen. 2: 7 - 23."

True. No argument here

You said:

"THEREFORE IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT ADAM WAS OLDER THAN EVE."

ABSOLUTELY WRONG. And bad logic. Just because God created Eve LATER does not mean that Adam was older. It means she was created later. That's It. when God created Adam and Eve, he DID NOT create them as 1 day old babes. Instead, he created them OF AGE (MAN and WOMAN). And what is the age of Adam and Eve when God created them? WE DO NOT KNOW!

So you are simply speculating here that Adam is older than eve.

Next point: EVEN IF ADAM IS OLDER THAN EVE, How does that make marrying a (beliver) woman who is older sinful?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 7:45:50 PM Close
You also said:

"Regarding the aspect of questions raised by the youngsters I believe that all questions of the youngsters cannot be answered by us."

But questions like what we are now discussing now - relating to age difference in marraige, can easily be answered if we are honest to ourselves and to them in the light of the word: these are practices which we personally prefer and the Bible does not condemn us for practicing them. Hence we have no problem practicing them.

So for believers, is it in the will of the Lord for a man to marry a woman even if the woman is older?

Absolutely. The Bible clearly tells us what God's will is in marriage - with respect to age, the only criteria is that both should be of Age.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 7:59:36 PM Close
My observation in the Kerala Brethren is that there are few customs we forbid due to our personal preferences. These are also not forbidden directly or indirectly in the scriptures. They are personal preferences.

It would be good if we were honest to admit these are customs we personally prefer. But to
forbid others from doing otherwise saying it is sinful has no scriptural backing.

This age stipulation is one of them.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 8:54:51 AM Close
Dear brothers,

I agree with saint1 that there are no restrictions in the age difference of a couple in the Bible as long as both are of age (Gen 38:11)

Regarding seeking Lord's will to see who we can and should marry, that is also revealed in the bible for our edification.

God bless

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 7:02:49 PM Close

Believer.bible

The subject of submission is a deviation from this topic. I admit that this was pointed out by thomasba and you responded to it.
You didn’t say “ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED ON THE SAME DAY”. (Sorry about it). BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THEY WERE CREATED ON THE SIXTH DAY.

The discussion is not about whether it is sinful for a man to marry a woman older to him but it is “IS MARRYING A GIRL WHO IS ELDER TO THE GUY RIGHT OR WRONG IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OR ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD?)
[The AGE OR AGE DIFFERENCE IS NOT IN QUESTION HERE BUT WHETHER ADAM WAS OLDER TO EVE OR NOT]

Gen. 38:11 refers to a CUSTOM OF THAT TIME and it would give more light on the topic that we discuss if we read from verses 6 – 30. (Would someone advise if this custom is still in practice among the Jews?).
THIS IS AN EXCEPTIONAL PRACTICE THAT WAS ALLOWED IN THE CASE OF THE DEATH OF A HUSBAND WITHOUT A CHILD. Deu. 25: 5.
Now if we read verses Gen. 38: 27 – 30, we see that there is a DETERMINATION OF THE ELDER AND YOUNGER OF THE TWINS that were born.
We see a similar situation in the case of ESAU AND JACOB WHO WERE TWINS and it is clearly mentioned that Esau was the elder one and Jacob the Younger one.
THEREFORE IT IS NOT NCESSARY TO HAVE a time difference of about one year or more for one to become older than another.

1/2

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 7:05:35 PM Close

2/2

Gen. 2: 18 And the LORD God said, it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
This verse indicates that Adam was alone before Eve was created meaning he was older. Reading 1 Tim. 2:13 and 1 Cor. 11: 9 in conjunction would be useful.
THEREFORE BY ALL MEANS as we have discussed from Genesis chapters one and two, in the creation of man, ADAM WAS OLDER THAN EVE. THIS IS UNEQUIVOCAL and is not a speculation.

Further it is not the parent’s approval that is required but THE WILL OF GOD that is required.

Now let me know whether you would be able to advise a youngster ‘SUPPORTED FROM THE SCRIPTURES’ that he can marry a girl older to him? I believe YOU CANNOT!

When it comes to marriage and as with any other matter in the life of a believer, first seek the will of God. Then all the priorities of ones life will stand void and this should be the standard. And if one has ascertained that it is the will of God to marry a woman older to him, then where is the question of sinfulness or something that is against the word of God coming up?

God bless us

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 29 Mar 2008 2:48:41 AM Close

Saint1 (Dear brother/sister ……….)

I made my last posting prayerfully.

I believe instead of saying what you or I said is correct or wrong, we must advise a youngster to seek the will of God and take the course of action for which God has revealed His will.

God Bless

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 10:33:08 AM Close
Dear Mathew,

You said:

"The discussion is not about whether it is sinful for a man to marry a woman older to him but it is “IS MARRYING A GIRL WHO IS ELDER TO THE GUY RIGHT OR WRONG IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OR ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD?) "

Please confirm if you are saying that if something is wrong in the sight of God or according to the Bible, it is not a sin?

The question here is definately whether it is sinful or not to marry an older woman. Anything that is wrong in the sight of God or in the light of His word IS A SIN.

You also said:

"Gen. 38:11 refers to a CUSTOM OF THAT TIME and it would give more light on the topic that we discuss if we read from verses 6 – 30. (Would someone advise if this custom is still in practice among the Jews?)."

Once again you missed reading carefully. We are not referring to the custom of younger brothers marrying an expired brother's wife but read the verse carefully again:

Gen 38:11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, TILL SHELAH MY SON BE GROWN.

The point here is that the only thing hindering SHELAH from marrying was that HE WAS UNDER AGE. Whether he is younger or older to Tamar IS OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. HE HAS TO BE OF AGE TO MARRY Tamar. That is it.

Do jews permit marrying underage individuals? No! In most countries (if not all as I can remember) that marrying underage individuals are illegal. The Bible clearly tells us here that underage individuals are not to be married much much before modern day laws were established that deal with this issue.

So from the BIBLE which is the revealed will of God, we know that it is AGAINST GOD's will to marry underage individuals.

This is why we need to consider Gen 38:11 as it is the only portion in the Bible that refers to
the age of two individuals for marriage. And what does it explain to us?

UNDERAGE MARRIAGE IS NOT IN THE WILL OF GOD

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 10:48:01 AM Close
You also said:

"Now if we read verses Gen. 38: 27 – 30, we see that there is a DETERMINATION OF THE ELDER AND YOUNGER OF THE TWINS that were born.
We see a similar situation in the case of ESAU AND JACOB WHO WERE TWINS and it is clearly mentioned that Esau was the elder one and Jacob the Younger one.
THEREFORE IT IS NOT NCESSARY TO HAVE a time difference of about one year or more for one to become older than another."

Why is the birth of Esau and Jacob coming in this discussion of whether men can marry older woman? Why are we looking at one year intervals? This has nothing to do with the discussion. Whether there is a one second gap or not, clearly someone is elder and someone is younger. but how does the birth of these two people relate to our discussion of marriage?

You also said:

"Gen. 2: 18 And the LORD God said, it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

This verse indicates that Adam was alone before Eve was created meaning he was older. "

Meaning he was older? Once again I ask you: Was Adam created as a Babe? Was Eve created as a Babe? I suspect you will avoid this question as it will put to rest who is older than who between Adam and Eve as it will be impossible to know for us from the Bible.

The verse simply means Adam WAS CREATED BEFORE Eve was created. Either you have not fully understood this or you are intentionally purpoting YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (2 Pet 1:20).

Scripture tells both were CREATED ("formed" - 1 Tim 2:13)) and they were created (formed - 1 Tim 2:13) OF AGE (Man and WOMAN). THEY WERE NOT BORN. And they were not born as BABES. Will you admit this in the light of the scriptures?

Understand the difference between ADAM and EVE being CREATED ("formed" 1 Tim 2:13) between ADAM and EVE being born. If both were born with Adam being first, I would agree that Adam is older. But that is not the case. I don't know why it is so hard to understand this simple logic as per what the Bible has revealed to us.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 11:08:03 AM Close
You also said:

"Reading 1 Tim. 2:13 and 1 Cor. 11: 9 in conjunction would be useful.

THEREFORE BY ALL MEANS as we have discussed from Genesis chapters one and two, in the creation of man, ADAM WAS OLDER THAN EVE. THIS IS UNEQUIVOCAL and is not a speculation."

1 Tim 2:13
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Where does speak of any age difference? It just says Adam (as a man) was created before Eve (as a woman). As pointed out earlier - Both were created OF AGE (Man and woman) AND NOT AS BABES.

1 Tim 2:13 mentions that Adam was first created (not born!) THEREFORE all the instructions that the apostle had mention with respect to WOMAN's CONDUCT in the assembly is meant FOR THE CONTEXT that begins 1 Tim 2 vs 9 to vs 15.

1 Cor 11:9

Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

What does this have anything to do with age? It just simply tells that man was not created for the woman but the woman for the man. To use this to say Adam was older than Eve and therefore it is wrong for a man to marry an older woman is PRIVATE INTERPRETATION which is against the word of God (2 Pet 1:20)

It is clear, you are simply SPECULATING that Adam is older than Eve.

Was Adam created as a Babe?
Was Eve created as a Babe?

I find it surprising that you said

"Further it is not the parent’s approval that is required but THE WILL OF GOD that is required."

Scripture instructs us in 1 Cor 7:36-38 that the father has freedom to decide in marriage for his daugther. The father MUST GIVE his daugther in marriage. This applies in the case of believers.

This "will of God" is not something that is hidden or ambigous. It is right there in the scriptures for us. All we need to do is search the scriptures daily (Acts 17:11) and rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15). 1 Cor 7:36-38 is the will of God - that a Father's approval is required for a christian woman to marry a christian man. Further, "Obey your parents" is also in the will of the Lord.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 11:22:02 AM Close
You also said:

"Now let me know whether you would be able to advise a youngster ‘SUPPORTED FROM THE SCRIPTURES’ that he can marry a girl older to him? I believe YOU CANNOT!"

The contrary is also true which comes to our that point SCRIPTURES do not tell us ANYTHING when it comes to marrying someone older or younger.

But to make a rule as per one's private interpretation and say anything against it is sin inorder to uphold a custom is similar to what the pharasees did in the time of Christ.

Scriptures should be our final authority for all matters of faith and practice.

You also said:

"When it comes to marriage and as with any other matter in the life of a believer, first seek the will of God."

This can be done by searching the scriptures. God's will in marriage is clearly written in the scriptures for us.

You also said:

"And if one has ascertained that it is the will of God to marry a woman older to him,"

The Bible, God revealed will to us is clear: a Christian man, marrying a Christian woman who is older to him does not come into question anywhere. That is a personal preference for us to choose and God has given us that freedom.

You also closed by saying: "I believe instead of saying what you or I said is correct or wrong, we must advise a youngster to seek the will of God and take the course of action for which God has revealed His will."

I will have to ask back, what is this "will of God" from the scriptures?

Is this something ambigous or something we can look to the Bible for an answer, which is the revealed will of God?

DEFINATELY! Maybe another thread can be started for now. But to make it short, as of now it is clear. God's will regarding permitting marriage is silent on considering who is older or younger. It is only private interpreatators who are making rules to fit customs, uphold traditions or suit personal preferences. God has given us the freedom to choose someone older or younger to marry and that is not a sin (.i.e something wrong).

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 1:02:36 PM Close

Believer.bible (dear brother/ sister ……..)

I JUSTED QUOTED THE QUESTION AS POSTED BY Joshuavic . His usage is ‘right or wrong’.
As far as I understand there is a difference between something wrong and sinful. Sin is disobedience to God. Something wrong does not become sin unless that person has the knowledge that the action is forbidden or against the will of God. (If you would like to discuss about sin and wrong doings PLEASE use another thread so that we will get views of other members on this forum also).

I NEVER SAID repeat NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MARRIAGE BETWEEN UNDERAGED PEOPLE. (For information sake I heard about the instances or even custom in the 20th century in Kerala of marriages between under aged couples, early marriages, even among the brethren. Anyone who has the knowledge may confirm this).

I UNDERSTAND FROM THE SCRIPTURES THAT ADAM WAS OLDER TO EVE AND EVE WAS YOUNGER TO ADAM.

MY MENTION OF ESAU AND JACOB is to say Esau is older and Jacob younger. THE BIBLE SAYS SO. Gen. 25: 23 And the LORD said unto her, two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER.

ONCE AGAIN I REPEAT THAT I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE AGE BUT ABOUT WHO IS OLDER OR YOUNGER.
My statement stands corrected as “Further it is not the parents’ approval that is required FIRST but the will of God that is required FIRST”.

1/2

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 1:05:06 PM Close

2/2

I have not done or said anything that you have charged on me. My previous posting clearly answers most of your questions to me and your accusations are baseless. Thank you for taking my thoughts beyond natural course of a discussion that helped me to read or study of subjects connected to the subject of this thread. Since my view points are there in my postings I am unable to devote more of my time on unprofitable arguments. FURTHER DISCOURSE BASED ON THE USE OF LANGUAGE OR ITS STYLE OR THE DIFFERENCE IN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ONE SAID BY ANOTHER WOULD NOT ADD ANY VALUE.

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 1:52:52 PM Close
Dear Mathew,

For what really matters, you have not answered some relavent questions and continue to be ambigous by appealing to the case of Adam and Eve and advice youngsters to consider "the will of God for marriage" over what is clearly revealed in the scriptures

Adam was created before Eve.

So...

1. Do you believe Adam was created a babe or man?
2. Do you believe Eve was created a babe or woman?
3. If man and woman, on what basis do you say Adam is older than Eve?
4. If Adam is older than Eve, on what basis does that become law for others to follow?

I also understood that you tend to avoid appealing to scriptures in confirming if something is not the will of God infavour of a "will of God" that is open to private interpretation:

"My statement stands corrected as “Further it is not the parents’ approval that is required FIRST but the will of God that is required FIRST”."

Firstly, when God's will is ALREADY revealed in the Bible for believers FIRST, why are we ignoring it and asking for another revelation of the will of God?

1 Cor 7:36-38 gives the father freedom to decide in marriage for his daugther. The father has to give his daugther in marriage.

To say that we need another revelation to know if this revelation is true or not implies we do not have faith in the scriptures as the revealed will of God.

*************

My conclusion from our discourse as I already mentioned earlier in general with respect to most Kerala brethren is that customs, practices and personal preferences have overtaken the authority of scriptures when we attempt to justify them in the midst of youngsters.

Not everyone will buy "seek the will of God" as a way to justify personal preference or practice and avoidance of hard questions when the will of God we so much seek is already revealed in the scriptures even though it may go contrary to popular belief, practice or preference.

God bless,

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 5:01:34 PM Close

Believer.bible

My posting of 27 Mar 08 4:29:58 reads:
“My reference to ages like 1 or 100 or any other details is that the age of Adam is not mentioned in the Bible and is not important here. My statement “FULLY GROWN UP MAN” has the same meaning as your usage of “THEY WERE OF AGE”.
WE BOTH SAY THE SAME THING that we cannot know the age of Adam and Eve at the time of their creation. The question was that Adam was older to Eve or not and I do not wish to discuss their AGE as we have the same understanding in common.” (I never said they were created by God as babes).

THERE CANNOT BE AN AGE AT THE TIME OF CREATION FOR ADAM AND EVE. THEIR AGE WAS LIKE THAT OF A NEW BORN BABY?!

[WHEN GOD CREATED them HAVING A DESCRIPTION “they were of Age” (as you said) I THINK his ‘AGE BEGAN’ and after 365 days he was one year old]. [This is another matter and if any one likes to discuss this subject may (please) do so on another thread].

THE FACT THAT ‘ADAM WAS CREATED BEFORE EVE’ as you said, SIMPLY MEANS THAT ADAM WAS OLDER THAN EVE AND EVE YOUNGER THAN ADAM. (The example of Esau and Jacob is to bring home the thought that even a baby born few minutes after another is younger and the first one is older).

THIS WAS THE ORDER THAT GOD SET WHEN HE CREATED THEM MALE AND FEMALE; (HUSBAND AND WIFE); MAN AND WOMAN (the whole world follows this order with few exceptions man made – unless it is specifically ordered by God OR the will of God is revealed).

I DO NOT FIND ANY REASON THAT THE WORD OF GOD SHOULD SEPARATELY SAY THAT MAN SHOUD MARRY YOUNGER WOMAN ONLY AND THEREFORE THERE IS NO NEED TO MAKE ANY MENTION TO THE CONTRARY ALSO.

TO GOD BE THE GLORY
God bless all

Mathew

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page


Post reply Here

please login to continue..

Registered Users, Login below:

Username Password
Problem Login?

New User? Register Now

Forgot User Name or Password? Click Here

Go to top of the page

All times are GMT -5 Hours
Forums Home ::
© 2017 Sansnet.com



HOME
Back to Top