KeralaBrethren.net
New User? Register Today!
Registered Users, LOGIN
What we believe (Eng) What we believe (Mal) About Us Contact Us
Forums Home General Forum Youth Forum Sisters Forum Archives (2005-2007) Archives (2001-2004)
Listing of Brides Listing of Grooms
Assemblies in Kerala Evangelists in India Instituitions in India
Christian Albums Christian Songs
Audio Sermons Bible Wallpapers Brethren Links KB History (Eng) KB History (Mal)

K E R A L A  B R E T H R E N
General Forum

Forums Home ::
This Message Forum is to discuss spiritual topics only. Please avoid personal or assembly matters.
Let us use this facility for our spiritual enrichment and for bringing glory to our Lord almighty.
Webmasters reserve the right to delete any topic or posting partly or completely from this forum.
View Topics :: :: Post new topic


Keralabrethren.net: General Forum: Let this Cup remove/pass

Post Reply
Go to bottom of the page

# 07736 :  Let this Cup remove/pass

Whats the right way to interpret this verse Mathew 26: 39,42 and Luke 22:42

Mathew 26:39

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. -KJV

And he withdrew a little and he fell upon his face and he prayed and he said, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass by me, however not as I will, but as you will.” - Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Luke 22:42

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. –KJV

And he said, “Father, if you are willing, let this cup pass from me; however not my will, but yours be done.” - Aramaic Bible in Plain English

I came across a website where it says the interpretation like this from where all my doubt started.

"During passover meal, the table would usually share one, large, communal cup. The custom was that when the cup came to the place you were reclining, you must drink from it as deeply as you could, before passing it on to the next person at the table. Before you could “let this cup pass” you had to drink deeply from it.If it was emptied, it would be filled again before being passed on. Often, at the bottom of the cup, there were bitter dregs from the wine. If you were the person to empty the cup, you must drink the bitter dregs as well, before you “let this cup pass.”

So when Jesus prays, “Let this cup pass from me,” He is not saying, “I don’t want to drink it,” but is rather praying, “Let me drink of it as deeply as I possibly can before I pass it on to humanity. Let me empty it. Let me drain it. Let me drink all of it, even the bitter dregs at the bottom of the cup.”

The word used in Matthew 26:39 for “pass” is parerchomai, which can be translated in a variety of ways. In Matthew 26:39, in place of the Greek word parerchomai, the Ginsburg Hebrew New Testament contains the Hebrew word abar, which means “to pass through.” This is crucial word in the account of the Passover (cf. Exodus 12:12, 23). In that account, the Lord “passed over” (Heb. pesach), the houses of the Israelites which had blood of the lamb on the doorpost, but He “passed through” (Heb. abar) the houses of the Egyptians which did not.

It appears that when Jesus prayed to let this cup pass, He used the word abar. He was not praying to escape the pain and suffering, and have it pass over (pesach) Him, but was praying to take it on fully, to experience the pain, death, and suffering of the cup of God’s wrath."

Share your thoughts whether the authors view is right? and also thoughts on this verse.

Post by : deepucvarghese  View Profile    since : 6 Apr 2015


Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 8 Apr 2015 4:21:06 PM Close

Dear Deepuc Varghese,

Since no one has given you an answer, let me pen the following:

In Exodus 12:12, the word VYBRITh’ThI, pronounced—VAABARITh’ThI is translated in KJV as “For I will pass through.” In Exodus 12:23, there are two Hebrew words that are translated using the English word “pass.” The first Hebrew word is VYBR, pronounced VAABAR and it is translated as “will pass through.” The second Hebrew word is VPSCh, pronounced VAPESACh and is translated as “will pass over.” The second word is what gave us the word Pessaha or Passover.

If your author is trying to convey the idea of pass-over, then PESACh may be a better word than ABAR. However, your author wants to make his point and he could use the following as his reasoning.

I wish to make you aware of the fact that the Hebrew word ABAR appears many times in the Old Testament. The translation varies in KJV and I am producing a summary of it, below:

Pass ------------------------  83

Pass over ------------------  81

Go over --------------------  51

Go --------------------------  24

Pass through --------------  21

Transgress ----------------- 19

Cause to pass -------------  16

Make pass -----------------  12

Pass away ------------------ 10

Be past ---------------------    9

Go through ----------------    9

All other ------------------- 146

You make your own decision on this word.

Your posting contained portions that are copied from some place, “The word used in Matthew 26:39 for “pass” is parerchomai, …” I checked two different Greek texts. In both of them, the Greek word used for “pass” is παρελθατω (PARELThATW) and not PARERCHOMAI.

Another observation on the paragraph is, you copied, “…the Ginsburg Hebrew New Testament contains the Hebrew word abar, which means “to pass through.” I have a Hebrew translation of the New Testament by Ginsburg. In that, Matthew 26:39 has the Hebrew expression Th’ThYBR-NA, pronounced as TAABAR-NE and it stands for “let pass” in KJV. You could see the ABAR in TAABAR-NE, but that is not what is in Exodus 12. The Hebrew word TAABAR appears in Lamentations 4:21 and is translated as “shall pass,” and that was in connection with a cup being passed.

The use of this Hebrew word in Matthew 26:39 was done by Ginsburg in translating the Greek text. If you are interested to understand further, then you should do that using the Greek New Testament and not a Hebrew translation of the Greek New Testament.

You copied the conclusion from your author, “It appears that when Jesus prayed to let this cup pass, He used the word abar. He was not praying to escape the pain and suffering, and have it pass over (pesach) Him, but was praying to take it on fully, to experience the pain, death, and suffering of the cup of God’s wrath." He has not provided sufficient reasoning to come to his conclusion. You should ask him for further help and clarification for the unfounded Greek word and also the Hebrew expression in Matthew 26:39.

Please ask the your author for further explanations. I do not wish to spend any more time on this.

Shalom Malekim!!!

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : deepucvarghese   View Profile   Since : 9 Apr 2015 7:27:11 PM Close

Dear brother George,

Thanks for your thoughts. I will try to check with the author if possible and post it here if i get any response.

Dear brother KJ,

"nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done’ looks appropriate for both interpretations. 

 

 

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page


Post reply Here

please login to continue..

Registered Users, Login below:

Username Password
Problem Login?

New User? Register Now

Forgot User Name or Password? Click Here

Go to top of the page

All times are GMT -5 Hours
Forums Home ::



HOME
Back to Top