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# 07744 :  Leader and Leadership

A few questions about leaders and leadership.

1. Does God call those who do not want to be leaders? What if you are not equipped for the job? Do you pray that God will choose someone else?

2. Is it wrong for a leader to ask others to share his responsibilities? Especially if it is too much for him to handle.

3. What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses?

4. How do you know that God has chosen a leader? How do you differenciate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way?

5. When two leaders have different points of view on a particular topic, what should they do? Is it right to fight it out in front of the believers?

I kinda know the answers to this (from Moses' life) but I would like to know what's your opinion on this.

Post by : kris134  View Profile    since : 22 Apr 2015


Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 22 Apr 2015 1:18:43 PM Close

Dear 'kris134,'

You wrote that you have some understanding on these questions. Could you share them, before others begin to contibute?

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : kris134   View Profile   Since : 22 Apr 2015 3:39:39 PM Close

Dear

Like I said, life of Moses is an example. God called him when he was unwilling and he asked God to choose someone else. And Peter was one who was not equipped to handle the job of leading the Church when Christ called him. Moses chose some faithful men of God to stand as judges in his place. Moses took the issue of Korah to the Lord. God revealed to the Israelites that Aaron was chosen (rod that blossomed) and Moses was chosen (Miriam's leprosy)

But what about today? In the time of grace, He is not going to open the earth to swallow up 'Korah'. Nor would a Christian leader ever pray for that (seventy times seven). How do you know if you are what God has chosen you to be? What do you do when there's no more people to help you?

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 22 Apr 2015 6:12:56 PM Close

Dear 'kris134,'

Could you tell which question from your list of five is answered here?

Could you also answer your two questions, "How do you know if you are what God has chosen you to be? What do you do when there's no more people to help you?"

It will be helpful, if you could provide your answers after quoting each of your questions and followed by your answer. 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : kris134   View Profile   Since : 23 Apr 2015 4:56:08 AM Close

Dear

Sorry. Hope this clarifies. These are primarily from the life of Moses, but it would be helpful if there was any other answer.

1. Does God call those who do not want to be leaders? What if you are not equipped for the job? Do you pray that God will choose someone else? Ans: God called him when he was unwilling and he asked God to choose someone else. And Peter was one who was not equipped to handle the job of leading the Church when Christ called him.

2. Is it wrong for a leader to ask others to share his responsibilities? Especially if it is too much for him to handle. Ans: Moses chose some faithful men of God to stand as judges in his place.

3. What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses? : Moses took the issue of Korah to the Lord

4. How do you know that God has chosen a leader? : God revealed to the Israelites that Aaron was chosen (rod that blossomed) and Moses was chosen (Miriam's leprosy)

 

I don’t have answers to the others.

1.       How do you differenciate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way? Especially since there are many who come like Absalom, pretending to be worried about you, but in reality, just profiting themselves.

2.       When two leaders have different points of view on a particular topic, what should they do? Is it right to fight it out in front of the believers?

3.       How do you know if you are what God has chosen you to be (a leader)?

4.       What do you do when there's no one to help you?

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 24 Apr 2015 2:19:25 PM Close

Dear ‘kris134,’

If we try to understand the Scriptural principle by asking questions and trying to provide seemingly reasonable answers, then we will go astray from God’s principle, because we are relying on our logical capabilities that are tainted by sin and the influence of the enemy. Instead, we should try with all out might to deduce from the Scriptures what the Scripture tells us. Let us look into your questions and your answers. However, many times we see that spending time in generating questions and then ask them for others to answer have become part of our norm. If you spend time to generate the questions, you should also spend some time to justify those questions. That could be done by reading the Scriptures and providing your answers using the Scriptures. You should provide the references, in such cases and not just a passing remark.

Your first question was: “Does God call those who do not want to be leaders? What if you are not equipped for the job? Do you pray that God will choose someone else?” To this your answer was, “God called him when he was unwilling and he asked God to choose someone else. And Peter was one who was not equipped to handle the job of leading the Church when Christ called him.” Who was the unwilling person who asked God to select someone else? I assume that you have Moses in your mind. Was Moses not equipped for the job for which God selected him? If that is the case, then there is something wrong with God, because God selected a person who was not equipped for the job. When we reason like this, we are questioning God’s deity, which delights Satan.

What made you to say that Peter was not equipped to handle the job? He was selected to be one of the 12 apostles and gave a name that he is a stone and the foundation of the Ekklesia that Christ builds, of which Christ is the corner stone. When God elects or selects a person, that person is bestowed with all that is needed to perform that job. God provides all that is necessary to complete the job for which he is selected, if he continues to obey Him. If not, He will select another person as it pleases Him. Man has a responsibility and that is to obey God. In the case of Peter, God made him more than capable for the job. This he demonstrated indubitably on the Day of Pentecost.

Moses never said that he does not want to be the leader, but all he did was to tell about his physical drawbacks compared to many others. He was comparing himself with others, but God taught him that it is He who is going with him and all he has to do was to obey. It is written that the gift and calling of God are not subjected to repentance (Romans 11:29). Peter was also told by the Lord that He will send the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth John 14-16). God enables those whom He calls, elect, and/or select to work on His behalf.

If you look into the two examples—Moses and Peter—then you will learn that God called them to perform a higher job that is similar to the one that they were engaged in. It is a principle that God uses. He was a man who refused to be the future heir of the throne of Egypt and learned how to shepherd the sheep in the wilderness. He was called to shepherd the sheep of God—children of Israel—through the wilderness to the Promised Land. This calling came to him when he was shepherding the sheep. The sheep were not his. Similarly, Simon who was good as a fisherman was called to be the fishers of men. He was a successful fisherman having his own business. After he was called to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, he was baptized with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost to enable him for the work that was entrusted to him.

Both of them were the best persons to do what God called them to do, though they might have reservations about their abilities. However, God had no reservations how He will guide them to complete the job that they were entrusted to do. God does not call men according to their knowledge about their abilities to do God’s job. God enable the earthen vessels that He elect or select to complete the work for which they are called.

Your second question was: Is it wrong for a leader to ask others to share his responsibilities? Especially if it is too much for him to handle.” Your answer to that was: “Moses chose some faithful men of God to stand as judges in his place.” Let me ask you some questions, in connection with your answer. First, do you read in the Scriptures that God disapproved what Moses did? Second, do you read that God told Moses about what He will do to enable those whom he has to select? Third, who said that the work Moses has to do was too much for him to handle? Was it God, Moses, or another third person? You should search the Scriptures to answer your questions. This searching should include other questions that could be the additional possible sub-questions. I have provided you with some of them.

If you decide to provide answers, please make sure you provide the references from the Scriptures that enabled you to reach that answer.

Your third question was: What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses? To this, your answer was, “Moses took the issue of Korah to the Lord” You did not answer your question. The question was “What does/should a leader do…?” You have to provide your answer and it should be more that what Moses, Paul, or Peter did. What they did was written for our edification and you should look into the Scriptures and provide an answer. Your answer should tell us, what you learn from them. When you do that, then you will say that God enabled them to complete the work for which they were called by God.

Your fourth question was: “How do you know that God has chosen a leader? How do you differenciate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way?” However, you answered only the first part of it and your answer was, “God revealed to the Israelites that Aaron was chosen (rod that blossomed) and Moses was chosen (Miriam's leprosy)” You have to provide the answers to all your questions, because you are trying to learn the Scriptural truths from the questions. Could you search the Scriptures to find the answer?

Let me point out to you that there is something to note about your answer. The question was “How do you know…,” but your answer did not address it. Did God show Aaron that he is the chosen high priest when his rod was blossomed? On the other hand, was it for those who questioned Aaron and Moses about the priesthood of Aaron? I am only pointing out the fact that your answer is not exactly what its purpose was, though what happened was a comforting sign for Aaron. Similarly, Miriam’s leprosy did not give any more assurance to Moses about his election or selection by God, but it was to teach Miriam that she should not question the right of God to do the election and selection.

You asked, “How do you know…,” that is how did the selected person knew. However, the incidents that you mentioned do not answer your question. Those incidents tell us how God answered those who opposed His election and selection. You have not answered your question.

You wrote that you have no answer to the following questions:

1. How do you differentiate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way? Especially since there are many who come like Absalom, pretending to be worried about you, but in reality, just profiting themselves.

2. When two leaders have different points of view on a particular topic, what should they do? Is it right to fight it out in front of the believers?

3. How do you know if you are what God has chosen you to be (a leader)?

4. What do you do when there's no one to help you?

We could go over these, after you take some time to study from the Scriptures on the four questions you answered. Since you opted to ask the question and then and study the Scriptures using them, I ask you to study the Scriptures.

I am trying to enable you to search the Scriptures, before asking the questions. You have answered some of the questions; please continue to do the good work.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 27 Apr 2015 3:45:31 PM Close

Dear ‘kris134',

Please continue your discussion with Mr. Koshy and I do not want to interfere. The following are some answers from me to the questions you raised (which are very good practical questions):

1. Does God call those who do not want to be leaders? What if you are not equipped for the job? Do you pray that God will choose someone else?

When God calls someone for any specific purpose, He has been preparing them for it from before that person's birth. He supplies the 'want' and the 'equipping'. If the 'wanting' is weak (as in Moses case) God will ensure that the mind is changed. God's calling cannot be resisted or thwarted by us. If we pray that God find someone else, that is same as plain disobedience, for which the consequence could be severe.

2. Is it wrong for a leader to ask others to share his responsibilities? Especially if it is too much for him to handle.

No, there is nothing wrong with a leader asking for help. We are asked to pray for our leaders and give them the support they need. God never gives anyone more than they can handle. But human strength is limited and is often buffeted by lack of faith/trust. So, often our leaders need more help, just as Aaron and Hur supported Moses hands when he got tired.

3. What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses?

We do not have a setup similar to how Moses was before all Israel. Moses had a level of authority that our church leadership does not have today. So a comparison to Moses and Korah is really not very applicable. However, opposition to leaders happen often enough and the best answer is what Paul instructed Timothy in 2 Tim 2: - "23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." In my opinion it is very hard for genuinely saved believers to oppose or resist a leader who is "gentle to all, able to teach and is patient and humble".

4. How do you know that God has chosen a leader? How do you differenciate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way?

The answer is in the Lord Jesus' own words that do not need additional explanation. Matt 7: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them." His direction is to wait and see if the tree's fruit is good or bad. That is the only way.

5. When two leaders have different points of view on a particular topic, what should they do? Is it right to fight it out in front of the believers?

This happens often enough and the real reason is because one or both leaders are controlled by the flesh and not the Spirit of God. When the flesh is in control, the desire to fight it out in front of other believers is significant. Those who are led by God's Spirit will not seek a public fight but will want to follow the directions of the Lord in Matt 18:15, which is a very private discussion. The right way to handle conflicts (leadership or not) is to submit prayerfully to the Spirit of God, and ask Him to give a direction on the issue at hand. Can you imagine what will happen when two elders, who disagree on some issue, getting on their knees together and praying earnestly for God's Spirit's direction? I guarantee you, God's Spirit will bring both individuals to agree on exactly what He wants to do. That's what they should do!

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Reply by : kris134   View Profile   Since : 28 Apr 2015 6:05:38 AM Close

Dear uncle

Thanks for your reply. Please see below responses.

1) Does God call those who do not want to be leaders? What if you are not equipped for the job? Do you pray that God will choose someone else?”

You said that "Was Moses not equipped for the job for which God selected him? If that is the case, then there is something wrong with God, because God selected a person who was not equipped for the job". Doesn't that itself undermine God, because he says to Paul in 2 Cor 12:9 "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me." Or is this verse only for the weaknesses that we have? Similarly in Peter's life, we see that he was a fisherman, not as well versed about the Scriptures (Acts 4:13 "When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.") You actually did answer my question "What if you are not equipped for the job?". "When God elects or selects a person, that person is bestowed with all that is needed to perform that job. God provides all that is necessary to complete the job for which he is selected, if he continues to obey Him. If not, He will select another person as it pleases Him." and "Both of them were the best persons to do what God called them to do, though they might have reservations about their abilities. However, God had no reservations how He will guide them to complete the job that they were entrusted to do. God does not call men according to their knowledge about their abilities to do God’s job. God enable the earthen vessels that He elect or select to complete the work for which they are called."

But about Moses, you do see that Moses was reluctant to go when God commanded (Exodus 4:10-17, 6:10-12) I'm not saying that he was disobedient like Jonah, who disobeyed God (Jonah 1:1,2). I think that Moses knew the power of God, what God was able to do, but he had doubt that he could be used for what God called him, given his drawbacks. Jonah, on the other hand, did not want God to show mercy to Ninevah (Jonah 4:2). He knew what God's mercy was, and he did not want that to be evident to the people of Ninevah.

 

2) Is it wrong for a leader to ask others to share his responsibilities? Especially if it is too much for him to handle.

a) Do you read in the Scriptures that God disapproved what Moses did? You don't see God's approval either. It's the same case with Abraham and Isaac when they lied about their wives (Genesis 12:11-13, 20:2, 26:7)

b) Do you read that God told Moses about what He will do to enable those whom he has to select? (Exodus 18) I wasn't able to find anything as you asked. If so, it seems to be like a mistake that he did select the men, like Joshua making a treaty with the Gibeonites without inquiring of the Lord (Joshua 9:14, 15)

c) Who said that the work Moses has to do was too much for him to handle? Was it God, Moses, or another third person? It was Jethro (Exodus 18:18)

 

3) “What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses?”  I did not understand your response. What I meant is "just as Moses took it to the Lord, we should also take it to God". I'm not sure if you were expecting another response.

 

4) "How do you know that God has chosen a leader? How do you differenciate a shepherd from the hired hand? How do you know if someone you follow is Moses or Theudas (Acts 5:36). Do we just wait and see, or is there any other way?” I'm sorry for the misunderstanding; I was actually asking it from a follower's point of view, i.e. how do I, being a part of a church or youth group, know whether a leader is chosen by God? In the Old Testament, God showed to the Israelites that Aaron was chosen (Numbers 17:5,10). But in the New Testament, we see Paul speaking about the false apostles and teachers (2 Cor 11:13, Titus 1:10, Philippians 3:2) and also affirming his authority to the believers(2 Cor 3:1,2, 11:5, 12:11,12, Phil 3:17, 1 Thess 2:1-11). Jesus says in Luke 6:43,44 that "“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit..." It seems then that we need to watch and wait (and mainly pray), to see if a person is chosen by the Lord for the ministry. Imagine if it was us who was following Theudas (Acts 5:36) because he seemed very godly and he had a 'zeal' for the Lord.

 

Thank you again for your reply uncle, and hope to see your response soon.

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Reply by : kris134   View Profile   Since : 28 Apr 2015 6:42:48 AM Close

Dear 'moses2006'

Thank you for your reply.  I do agree with you on all your points. However there are certain cases where the arguement cannot be ignored, as there are others who are involved. In the case of Korah, we see 250 leaders rose up against Moses and sided with Korah (Num 16:1-3). We read that after the earth swallowed up Korah, Dathan and Abiram, fire came from the Lord and consumed the 250 men (vs 35). And after the 250 men died, the Israelites grumbled saying that they killed God's people (vs 41) and 14,700 people died due to the plague. What I'm asking is: could this have been avoided?

Even in today's churches, we see such issues. We see false doctrines entering the church and leading believers away from the truth. If the leaders avoided 'foolish controversies' for the sake of preserving the spiritual environment in the church, won't these false doctrines lead the members of the church away? Don't they need to understand why the doctrine is wrong? Proverbs 18:17 "The first to plead his case seems right, Until another comes and examines him".

I know my questions are going out of topic, but if you can please do give your insight on them. Thank you again for your reply.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 5 May 2015 5:12:06 PM Close

Dear ‘kris134,’

This I write in reply to your posting of 28 Apr 2015.

You quoted me, “Was Moses not equipped for the job for which God selected him? If that is the case, then there is something wrong with God, because God selected a person who was not equipped for the job” I also wrote, as the next sentence, “When we reason like this, we are questioning God’s deity, which delights Satan.” This sentence voids your statement that followed in your posting, Doesn't that itself undermine God, because he says to Paul in 2 Cor 12:9 "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." …” The Apostle Paul continued about God’s grace and you mentioned it in your posting. I am at a loss to find the logical connection between Moses’ calling and Apostle Paul’s ailment for which he prayed. You should logically connect the calling of Moses and Saul the Pharisee, which you did not do. Moses was called when he was tending the sheep and Saul of Tarsus—the Pharisee—was called when he was engaged in his work. If you want to connect the prayer of Apostle Paul on his physical ailment, then you should find a similar incident from the life of Moses. This you did not do. When we do not connect related incidents, we will go wrong in our interpretations of the Scriptures, because we are not dividing the Scriptures in a straight line.

You mentioned another incident from the life of Peter, Or is this verse only for the weaknesses that we have? Similarly in Peter's life, we see that he was a fisherman, not as well versed about the Scriptures (Acts 4:13 "When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.")” If you are trying to connect Peter’s knowledge about the Scriptures before he was called, then you should compare that with the knowledge of Moses about the Scriptures before his call. If you try to do this kind of comparison from the lives of Moses and Peter, then you will be leading yourself into trouble, because there was no Scriptures—written Word of God—before Moses. Moses was the first one who wrote down the Scriptures by the inspiration of God.

You compared Moses and Jonah by writing, “But about Moses, you do see that Moses was reluctant to go when God commanded (Exodus 4:10-17, 6:10-12) I'm not saying that he was disobedient like Jonah, who disobeyed God (Jonah 1:1,2). I think that Moses knew the power of God, what God was able to do, but he had doubt that he could be used for what God called him, given his drawbacks. Jonah, on the other hand, did not want God to show mercy to Ninevah (Jonah 4:2). He knew what God's mercy was, and he did not want that to be evident to the people of Ninevah.” Could you tell me, from the Scriptures, how did you come to conclude about the knowledge of Moses with respect to the power of God?

Your observations on the next question about leaders sharing their responsibilities with others are interesting.

You wrote an answer to my question, Do you read in the Scriptures that God disapproved what Moses did?Your answer to this question was, You don't see God's approval either. It's the same case with Abraham and Isaac when they lied about their wives (Genesis 12:11-13, 20:2, 26:7)” When you made your statement about what I see in the Scriptures about Moses’ action and God’s approval, then it was done without giving an answer to my question. Your answer appears as a ‘shot across the bow,’ as matter of speaking.  When I asked you the question, I was expecting you to reply by giving your reason for your statement. Let us proceed in an orderly manner.

I cannot see the logical connection between what Moses did and the incidents from the lives of Abraham and Isaac. You have to explain this to present it as a cutting along a straight line the Word of Truth.

You quoted my question, Do you read that God told Moses about what He will do to enable those whom he has to select?” You followed my question with an answer, “(Exodus 18) I wasn't able to find anything as you asked. If so, it seems to be like a mistake that he did select the men, like Joshua making a treaty with the Gibeonites without inquiring of the Lord (Joshua 9:14, 15)” Moses selecting the men were from among the children of Israel to judge them. Joshua made a covenant with the Gibeonites, who were not any way connected with the children of Israel. Not only that, the covenant that Joshua made was a covenant of peace and not giving them any authority to judge Israel. You have to provide an explanation on it.

Your 3rd question in the opening frame was, What does/should a leader do when others oppose him? It is good when the leader is doing something wrong, like how Paul corrected Peter; but what if it is like Korah did to Moses? You gave the answer to this as, “Moses took the issue of Korah to the Lord.”  To this I replied,You did not answer your question. The question was “What does/should a leader do…?”” If I caused confusion, I will try to clarify my statement that you did not answer your question. The following is my explanation:

Korah was opposing the authority of Aaron to be the high priest. God did not call Korah any time before that to be a priest. However, he relied on his birth in the tribe of Levi as the qualification to be the high priest and to question Aaron’s authority.

On the other hand, Peter and Paul are two apostles that Christ called and authorized for His service. Either of them claimed that office because of their birth or birthright among the children of Israel, as Korah did. The Apostle Paul corrected the Apostle Peter. The Apostle Paul did not question the apostleship of Peter, as Korah did about the priesthood of Aaron. The apostle Paul was not consumed by the earth for correcting Peter as happened to Korah. However, the Apostle Peter wrote about the apostleship of Paul.

Having provided these, let me repeat, “You have to provide your answer and it should be more that what Moses, Paul, or Peter did. What they did was written for our edification and you should look into the Scriptures and provide an answer. Your answer should tell us, what you learn from them. When you do that, then you will say that God enabled them to complete the work for which they were called by God.”

Thank you for explaining your question #4. In the light of it, let me say that if you will search the Scriptures, after hearing a person or reading from his writings, as the Bereans did, then you—as a believer—will be led by the Holy Spirit to recognize the leaders appointed by the Holy Spirit. This is so, because you need the help of the Holy Spirit in searching the Scriptures. It is also written that we should test all spirits. Searching the Scriptures is the best way to test the spirits of men.

Let me use your example to further clarification of what I just wrote on the previous paragraph. You mentioned about Theudas. He was not a believer in Christ, but was a Jewish leader. He was not appointed by God. It was Gamaliel who brought the name of Theudas to remind the Jewish leaders about the inappropriateness of their action. In other words, Theudas is the wrong example in connection with what you wrote.

Is it possible for you to deduce the answers from the Scriptures, rather than answering your questions from some examples, though the examples are taken from the Scriptures without the appropriate context?

Shalom Malekim!!!

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