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# 00086 :  doubtful question
should marriage be possible between cousins...if NO why an what r the conditions where it is allowed.....
Post by : sony1  View Profile    since : 27 Sep 2007


Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 28 Sep 2007 12:30:20 PM Close
Dear Sony,

Cousins should not marry because of two reasons. Firstly the Bible does not permit such marriage, and secondly medically the blood mixed up with cousin blood will create lots of problems for the children.

If you read 2 Samuel 13th Chapter you will see how Amnon fell in love with his cousin sister Tamar and the problems they themselves have faced. A person marrying cousin will hate her very quickly.

Please read 2 Samuel 13:1-21

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 28 Sep 2007 10:08:32 PM Close
Dear trds,
Are there any passages in the new testament that talks of cousins not getting married ? This is out of curiousity...nothing else.
And doesn't this also bring up the subject of..I can understand the 1st or 2nd cousins bearing fetu's that will have congenital problems...what about 3rd or 4th cousins...etc.

In the case of Amnon and Tamar, wasn't it also lust on the part of Amnon for his sister that caused the problems...as he tried to seduce her and then forced her, after listening to some bad advice by his friend, Jonadab. How is this an illustration of cousins should not wed?

Judy.

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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2007 1:10:54 PM Close
The New York Times reported on September 29, 2007

Dr. Arno Motulsky, a professor emeritus of medicine and genome sciences at the University of Washington, warned, "we give people all the various possibilities and risks and leave it up to them to make a decision. Some might decide a doubling of the risk is not something they want to face. It is not known how many cousins marry or live together" Although the professor was not aginst cousins marrying cousins, his warning sounds too harsh on those who really want to do.

Scientific researches also showed that acute birth defects such as genetic diseseas, mental retardation, etc. have occurred in the cases of cousins marrying cousins.

The Bible speaks as follows:

The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. (Leviticus 18:9-10 KJV)

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. (Romans 13:1-2 KJV)

There is no specific verse in the New Testament prohibiting cousins marrying cousins, but there is also no verse reversing the order given in Leviticus 18th Chapter. Some, who want to do against Biblical truths find their own ways to defend their ways, even to the extent gay-marriages and lesbian marriages. I take the warning, "we give people all the various possibilities and risks and leave it up to them to make a decision" very seriously Those, who do not wish to take that warning seriously are at liberty to take their own decisions. This is the end from my part. I have nothing to add to what I have written

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2007 2:55:57 PM Close
I am sorry...this isn't to argue with you...this is a discussion.
Now this topic was open and I asked some questions that were on my mind over the years. That does not mean I agree with cousins getting married, but for finding out why I have been told all my life "it is sin for cousins to marry because the bible says so..". So, I am asking.

Now, the verse in Lev. talks about sisters/sons/grandkids...which makes sense.
In some communities 1st cousins are considered sisters...but technically, they aren't...since their biological parents are different. So, how does this verse in Lev. apply to cousins?
I know of fellow believers, who marry their 1st cousins as is their custom/tradition...So, if it is scripturally wrong..how come this is applicable to some communities and not all ?

Hope somebody can help me...

Judy.

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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 30 Sep 2007 10:14:41 AM Close
Dear Sony and other readers,

I will try to give a Scriptural answer for your question, but before that let me remind you something. We read in 1 Corintians 7:36-38 about the freedom a father has in deciding marriage for his daughter. It is the father who GIVES his daughter in marriage to her prospective husband. So a Christian girl should not marry AGAINST her parents' wishes, except in a case if parents force a believer to marry an unbeliever. I understand that in Kerala (or among the Malayalee brethren), some folks don't like marriage between cousins for social (or whatever) reasons.

Now this is what I suggest the young ladies. If your parents are believers and desire that you should get married only to believers, and you also know that your parents disapprove marrying cousins, then please don't get into thinking of marrying a cousin. Because it is the father who gives his daughter in marriage according to the Bible - and NOT you giving yourself to your prospective husband. How can your father give you in marriage if he does not consent to you marrying a cousin?

Getting back to the subject of marrying cousins, I am pasting what I had written long ago in this very forum.

=============================

There is a gradual change in how the marriages between relatives were done in the Scriptures.

Cain's wife was obviously one of Adam's daughters, buch such marriages are clearly not allowed in the Scriptures thereafter.

Abraham's wife Sara was the daughter of his father, but not his mother (Gen 20:12). That is, Terah had two wives, and Abraham and Sara are children of different mothers. But later on, such alliances were not encouraged, and the law of Moses forbids it (Lev 18:11). Tamar suggested this kind of marriage to Amnon to escape from him (2 Sam 13:12-13), but such a proposal is clearly against the law.

cont'd...

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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 30 Sep 2007 10:15:32 AM Close
Jacob married his mother's brother's daughter as per the instruction of his father (Gen 28:2). Leah and Rachel were his first cousins. Rebekah was the daughter of Isaac's first cousin Bethuel, who was the son of Nahor, Abraham's brother (Gen 11:29; 22:20-23). None of these marriages are forbidden in the law to my knowledge.

Othniel married his father's brother's daughter Achsah (Josh 15:15-16). She was his first cousin.

The daughter's of Zelophehad married their father's brothers' sons (Num 36:6, 11). They were their first cousins.

So, marrying first cousins is not forbidden. Neither the law, nor the New Testament forbids it.

===========================

In Christ Jesus,
Moses LemuelRaj

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Reply by : sony1   View Profile   Since : 30 Sep 2007 11:35:23 PM Close
thanks for all ur replies.....i kno i asked a difficult question....but the issue is still pendin, i got lot of answers but all r like the typical brethren answers...dnt get me wrong i myself is a brethren....

There r some thing which r set in our mind, an we will do anything to prove it right as trds pointed out.. The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover. The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. (Leviticus 18:9-10 KJV).....
where does it says abt the cousin, is a cousin born of thy father or thy mother.....if u continue readin the levi it is said to a group of them to marry from their fatheres family...

As lemuel said i didnt see anywhere in the bible which says no to marryin a cousin.....ya obviously as i said earlier man say 'NO' an they stick on to it...an evryone try hard to prove it right

I saw some one mentionin lust...common we r livin in 21st century....no body "marries" to satisfy a lust,hop u all got what i said...sorry if i rude but had to ay tat..

i m really sorry for puttin up this question...i had a friend who really needed help...but i think all the elders an other wil hav the same opinion as urs...so tank you so much all of u all for givin ur precious time for me.....

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Reply by : sony1   View Profile   Since : 1 Oct 2007 6:23:00 AM Close
plz forgive my spelling mistakes as i vs writtin in a hurry......but hope its clear to all........
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 3 Oct 2007 9:00:30 AM Close
Bro. Lemuel,
From your point of view I see that it isn't mentioned in the bible that cousins cannot marry...that it is a sin etc. etc. It is is a social issue for the malayalees...alright. Then it makes you wonder why do they promote this form of thought to their young ones that it is a sin biblically ? This is an interesting observation....this need to promote cultural/social/traditional beliefs (in many cases) and pass it off as scriptural. This is giving the young ones a wrong message...a sort of social control using religion.
Yes! I agree with it is the father that gives his daughter in marriage....but can we say with complete confidence that the father's full attention is on the well being of the daughter. I know of so many, many examples of father's who marry of their children keeping other secular agenda in mind...."to keep up with the Jones'" attitude and marriages where father's have refused/felt ashamed of certain life-partners their children had chosen because they didn't fit their social image, and have changed their minds, because those marriages have been wonderful and the ones they rejected are the ones to actually care for them....so many, many examples of this.
So, it does raise questions in the mind.....is keeping daady happy, even if he is wrong, really what the bible teaches. It need not be the illustration of an unbeliever...but what is important to the father...whether it is finding a "significant other" that loves the Lord, above all, and will honor and cherish their child till death parts them, as the Bible teaches them or is it...based on social pressure ??
Sorru...I went of topic a little bit, but other than perhaps, that their children would suffer from genetical problems later on....can we really say scripturally, you cannot marry cousins ?

Judy.

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 3 Oct 2007 9:12:17 AM Close
Bro.Sony,
You do need to read before infering what the author of the post is saying...
"lust" was used in context of Amnon and Tamara. It was to explain that what Amnon wanted was not marriage but something else and bible shows us the preceding events & conclusion to that little incident. It was a question...what did this incident have anything to do with cousins not marrying coz the situation was different...there was no marriage involved....

How exactly did you conclude that, the example I was talking about, had anything to do with a 21st century marriage situation ???
I am stumped totally !!

Judy.

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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 4 Oct 2007 1:04:44 AM Close
Dear Sis.Judy,

I agree with you. The Bible stops somewhere, but some social rules go further. There may be good reasons for that. If marriages between cousins was encouraged, there may be possibilities of young people falling into sin before marriage. In AP, it is allowed to marry some cousins (eg, father's sister's children, or mother's brother's children). Given the fact that such cousins know that they could potentially marry each other without elders opposition, some folks have indeed gone ahead getting into inappropriate acts and sin before marriage.

Let me reiterate. The Bible is the final authority. A person is still NOT guilty of anything if he/she has not violated Bible's principles on marriage. However, if a girl "gives herself in marraige" instead of letting her father given her in marriage, then she has violated the Scripture. Why the father has refused to give her in marriage, and whether he did it rightly, or wrongly is another matter. This is my understanding. The point is not keeping daddy happy, but making sure that its daddy who gives the girl off.

In Christ Jesus,
Moses LemuelRaj

PS: Dear sister, I am surprised at your usage of "significant other." They have invented this term because now a days, folks have a "civil partner" even if not married, and some times that partner is of the same gender as the other person. To avoid offending these sinners, other sinners have invented this language "significant other". If one's significant other is NOT one's wife or husband, then he/she is a fornicator. My request to you is to use God given terminology, wife, husband, spouse.

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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 4 Oct 2007 1:07:58 AM Close
Conclusion: Bible allows marriage between cousins, but make sure your parents agree to your marriage. One's father's and/or mother's children are NOT cousins. Tamar was Amnon's father's daughter, though not mother's daughter.
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 4 Oct 2007 8:47:51 AM Close
Thank you Bro. Moses L. for your response...it makes sense in it's own way. I guess we cannot change people, but we can certainly strive to focus on only what the scriptures say.
I had asked the question...because I too know of a family from Andhra Pradesh, who are cousins (don't know if it is maternal or paternal) are married...that is why I asked.
Sorry brother, I realize that the term "significant other" is used for gay couples or couple who live together....I think the term has also so entered into the normal dialogue nowadays...I didn't realize the significance. I apologize...you are right. I will be more aware of it from now on.
See! it goes to show another one of Satan's way of slowly brainwashing our minds/language to make things seem "not so bad" but acceptable.
Thank you.

A sister in Christ,
Judy.

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Reply by : sony1   View Profile   Since : 5 Oct 2007 8:18:10 AM Close
thank you all for ur kind reply....sorry if i vs lil rude before...the situation vs very bad at tat time, an i really wanted a proper answer....

The fact is i hav a friend(s)...they really like each other and they want to get married an the the difficult part is they r cousins...they didnt realize it vs such a big 'SIN' until they told tt to their parents....what more the hell broke out,it is such a big mess nw(sorry for my language)....their parents r really scared wat will the church elders say.what wil the society say....they want to make their chidren happy at the same time they cant do anything as they r really scared....and there r the special apperence of our certain beloved well wishers who r sittin with fastin an prayer in their house to break up their relationship as it is a SIN...the people who r heart broken an depressed r my friends....i hv no words to console them or help them..it heartbreakin to c them lik tat to c them like that..they r such a cute pair they like each other so much....this is what society does...i hav no comments...anyways thanks a lot...byeeee

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 5 Oct 2007 2:45:48 PM Close
Dear Bro.Sony,
That is a pickle of a situation!!!
I will definitely commit this matter into prayer to let our God reveal HIS will for this family at the right time, and all the individuals involved in this matter to have a little faith and trust in their God and His plan...rather than the fellow man !
Take care and God bless you for being a good friend and trying to do whatever you can....sometimes that kind of support is such a help. God bless you.

A sister in Christ,
Judy.

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Reply by : sajant   View Profile   Since : 5 Oct 2007 9:57:02 PM Close
Yes, as Judy Said, pray to get His Plans for them be revealed. And if it is to get them united, may He grant their parents & elders to be bold enough to proceed with it. If not, may He grant your friends enough strength to obey His Will and accept His Plan for them.

May you be blessed for your sincere efforts for your friends - Sajan

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Oct 2007 10:51:58 AM Close
Dear brothers and sisters,

The original question was "Should marriage be possible between cousins, etc....".

The counsel of Moses Lemuelraj is wise according to scripture. There is also the biological and genetic considerations to be taken into account. I know from observation in more than one instance, that where marriage has taken place between cousins the outcome concerning the health and welfare of children born in such a union has been beset by serious problems and even disabilities. I am sure that medical advice would be against it.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 7 Oct 2007 5:56:55 PM Close

Dear brothers and sisters,

[The original question is “should marriage be possible between cousins...if NO why an what r the conditions where it is allowed.....” The answer is POSSIBLE but not PERMISSIBLE? Pease continue reading].

I do not agree with the inference that it is allowed in the scriptures for marriage between cousins. The reason that there were references of marriages between cousins recorded in the Old Testament cannot be considered as permission for such marriages in the New Testament times.

The marriage of Cain with one of his sisters is not in consideration here now as it is exceptional. Well, the initial occurrences of marriages between brother and sister (subsequently there were marriages between cousins) have been ruled out or forbidden when the law was given to Moses. There after we see references of marriages between cousins in the Old Testament, but THEY SEEM TO BE NOT SO PREVALENT later on (please give references if I am wrong). [[The case of Amnon and Tamar should better be considered for the consequences of cousins living together, the council of evil friendship and their counsels. Truly they were brother and sister and if this evil has happened to them, much more was the danger if they were cousins]].

The New Testament is silent in this respect and it may not be wise counsel to take it for granted that this is permissible. Even if we consider a negative stand on this argument, as explained by other brethren, the biological and genetical considerations are far more significant in not permitting such marriages.

1/3

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 7 Oct 2007 5:58:11 PM Close

About the reference to “the social issue of Malayalees” I would like to humbly state that we are given to understand (taught) by our parents, relatives and other brethren and their families (including the assembly members) that even the 3rd and 4th cousins (don’t ask me why we shouldn’t extend this further) need to be considered as brothers and sisters. Amazing isn’t it. Many on this forum may be stunned by reading this. Truly, I would like to testify that this consideration have given all of us great joy in our lives. Thus living in a foreign country I enjoy the brotherly and sisterly love of numerous cousins (brothers and sisters).

[However, sad to say that there were instances in some assemblies where cousins got married despite all the objections from their parents and others].

We live in a world where when the children are asked to earn for themselves at the age of 18 or even earlier and share the household expenses (there is a point here of making them self reliant, good enough). This and the lack of close family relationship between the brothers, sisters, cousins etc have now made it impossible for young men and woman to distinguish their cousins 1st 2nd 3rd 4th etc. and consider them as brothers and sisters.

I am not here to condemn or condone the culture of any society or family for granting permission on this matter. But I would like to ask a question that on those cases of marriages between the cousins what were the considerations. Have they ever sought the Will of God in this matter? Or was it a gradual liking or “lust” that led to the holy matrimony? The danger of cousins living together or nearby houses etc is revealed here. Thus it may be a god consideration that by all means it is better to advise youngsters that cousins are brothers and sisters.

2/3

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 7 Oct 2007 5:59:10 PM Close

Another aspect is that in the Old Testament times there were no biological or genetical problems as regards the marriages between cousins. It may be prudent to consider that God expresses His disapproval now of marriages between cousins by giving this natural caution, the genetic disorders found in their off spring.

The sincere suggestion is seek the Will of God and correct any wrong situation if correction is possible and reconcile with God.

I quote (edited) from the posting of Bro. trds “Some who want to do against Biblical truths find their own ways to defend their ways”.

“Romans 13:1-2 KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation”.

I pray that our good Lord give us the wisdom to discern.

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

3/3

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