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# 01012 :  Abt. Prophecy &Tonges
Dear Brother& sisters,

In 1Corinthians13:9 mentioned abt the gift of Holly spirit.I have some doubts:Is the Prophecy ceased ?,Is the Tounges stilled? now.and also In 13:10,When perfection comes.....,perfection means the The 'book of Revelation' or Jesus Christ?
Pls give me the correct idea abt the abobe topics


Post by : jobc  View Profile    since : 30 Nov 2006


Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2006 3:59:44 AM Close
Following are some of the threads discussed on the subject other tongues and prophecy, in this discussion forum:

Toungues

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=61&forum=Sisters

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkbA/view.asp?id=77&forum=General2004

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=567&forum=General

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkbA/view.asp?id=427&forum=General2004

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=715&forum=General


http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=89&forum=Youth

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=98&forum=Youth

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=101&forum=Youth


Prophecy


http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=618&forum=General

http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=573&forum=General

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Reply by : john5   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2006 1:13:51 AM Close
I rarely visit this site for want of time. This topic, as discussed in the above threads, has some heated arguments. I would think of few verses from Jeremiah 23:27-40, especially Jeremiah 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:32

Matthew Henry writes on "v23-32 Men cannot be hidden from God's all-seeing eye. Will they never see what judgments they prepare for themselves? Let them consider what a vast difference there is between these prophecies and those delivered by the true prophets of the Lord. Let them not call their foolish dreams Divine oracles. The promises of peace these prophets make are no more to be compared to God's promises than chaff to wheat. The unhumbled heart of man is like a rock; if not melted by the word of God as a fire, it will be broken to pieces by it as a hammer. How can they be long safe, or at all easy, who have a God of almighty power against them? The word of God is no smooth, lulling, deceitful message. And by its faithfulness it may certainly be distinguished from false doctrines."

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Reply by : pc   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2006 2:03:08 AM Close
Hi John5,

You are trying to say by quoting Mathey Henry that today's prophecies are not true prophecy from the Lord. But jobc's question is whether prophecy ceased or not? Tounges stilled?

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Reply by : john5   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2006 5:07:10 AM Close
Hi pc,

Quote"...today's prophecies are not true prophecy from the Lord..."

I think Mathew Henry rightly claimed they are..."foolish dreams".

(1) What in your opinion are today's prophecies? and what do you think today's prophecies are? Can you quote ten today's publicly prophesied prophesies fulfilled and

(2) What are tongues and what tongues stilled?

Thank you,
John

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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 13 Dec 2006 11:24:26 AM Close
Over 400 million Christians have the belief that speaking in tongues exist today. The bible does not say tongues will stop after the early disciples all die out. When people take Christianity and make rules to fit there own comfort level, it turns into religion. The Pharisees of Jesus’ time were like this. Today the Indian Brethren are similar.
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Reply by : jamesjohn   View Profile   Since : 13 Dec 2006 10:41:24 PM Close
whether tounges have stilled or not, there were given very clear instruction of the use of toungues. Apostle Paul has very clearly instructed the corinthian church that they are not to speak in toungues when there is no one to interpret it. In the present day charismatic groups where they claim to speak in toungues, do you think the Holy spirit will go against His own words and encourage the believers to blabber something when there is no one to interpreter. If you say that they are speaking in the power of the Holy spirit, then you are indirectly saying that the Holy spirit is going against the instructions given in the Bible.
One thing is clear from the word of God, that the gifts of toungues were considered less important gifts. The more important gifts to the church are the gifts that will edify the whole church.
love
James
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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 15 Dec 2006 10:39:03 AM Close
“whether tounges have stilled or not, there were given very clear instruction of the use of toungues. “

Okay, I agree

“Apostle Paul has very clearly instructed the corinthian church that they are not to speak in toungues when there is no one to interpret it. “

Okay, I agree

“In the present day charismatic groups where they claim to speak in toungues, do you think the Holy spirit will go against His own words and encourage the believers to blabber something when there is no one to interpreter. “

Your assuming that there are no interpreters, why do you assume?

“If you say that they are speaking in the power of the Holy spirit, then you are indirectly saying that the Holy spirit is going against the instructions given in the Bible.”

Again you are assuming things, and then using the assumption to make your own doctrine to fit your own culture/comfort. This is not biblical.


“One thing is clear from the word of God, that the gifts of toungues were considered less important gifts. The more important gifts to the church are the gifts that will edify the whole church.”

Agreed.

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Reply by : pc   View Profile   Since : 15 Dec 2006 10:51:41 PM Close
Hi Jamesjohn
".......there were given very clear instruction of the use of toungues"

True. The Corinthians misused the gift of tounges.
Today we are given clear instructions how to live as a true christian. How many does? Are we saved? I guess you got the point.

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Reply by : rpaulmer   View Profile   Since : 22 Dec 2006 4:48:07 AM Close
Hi

Came to site after long time. This thread caught my attention.

I Cor 13 vs 8 goes like this
"there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away." (NIV)

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (KJV)

While there is so much discussion on prophecies and tongues ....what about knowledge...has it vanished !!!!

Just thinking aloud ! (Sorry for deviating from main thread)


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Reply by : john5   View Profile   Since : 22 Dec 2006 5:43:44 AM Close
Hey Paulmer,

These thoughts have been argued upon several times. Just look at them from a different angle. Was there any time period set for cessation of tongues, prophecies, or knowledge. We connect these three issues based on own knowledge, wisdom and argue. Let us be practical and think what kind of prophecies do you think are existing now. Is there any prophecy now said above what is already said in the Bible? What tongues do a sect of Christians speak? I have personally no idea about the inspiration in someone when he speaks tongues. I have been trying for a long time, but I did not get them. I only know about the tongues that we speak to one another in daily life.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 23 Dec 2006 12:17:26 AM Close
Knowledge mentioned in 1Cor. 13 is the Gift of knowledge, it is not the ordinary knowledge which we have.

This gift of knowledge was given to the Apostles as seen in the Act 5, they could understand the mind of others. This gifted knowledge, it will pass away.

Act 5:2 and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

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Reply by : rpaulmer   View Profile   Since : 28 Dec 2006 2:44:54 AM Close
Thanks Bro Sambudhanoor.

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Reply by : godlymathew   View Profile   Since : 6 Jan 2007 7:22:28 AM Close
Tonges and prophecy is not neccesary for this time.
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Reply by : sorry   View Profile   Since : 20 Mar 2007 10:14:56 AM Close
Sorry brothers... You are wrong in saying "Tongues and Prophecy are not necessary for this time". You (Godlymathew) assume that you are Godly and saying your own opinion here. Prove it from the Bible, can you Brother Godly? You (or me) are not the secretary of God to handle or make decisions on such Godly things..! Our conclusion should base upon the word of God alone.

First > I want you to understand about tongue and gift of tongues. These are two different matters if you study the Bible. You guys seem to be mixing these two different subjects together and are so confused about it.

I know minimum four languages (Malayalam, Tamil, Hindi and English) very well to handle. 1 Corinthians 13 says about this kind of gift of tongues (languages), i.e. you will be gifted with the blessings of different languages that you can use both for your personal wants and for God's work, which is evangelization. God is giving you wisdom & gift to understand and learn these new languages. In other words the Holy Spirit is helping you with its such gift.

Second > Speaking in other tongue. This happened in reality with those 120 gathered after the ascention of Jesus Christ. They began to speak in tongues given by the Holy Spirit.

What does that mean? It means that The experience of Acts of Appostle Chapter 2 should be observed personally by each person from God through prayer. Jesus said: If a son asks bread of his father, would he be given a piece of rock?..... If you unrighteous fathers know to give good things to your children, how much more it would be for your heavenly father to give Holy Spirit to those who ask? 120 people did ask and wait for it, and God sent his Holy Spirit with the clear proof, i.e. speaking in other tongue. If you also pray to God he will pour it. But you should forgive others and seek forgiveness from others and God for all your iniquities before seeking the Holy Spirit. Dont say that you have Holy Spirit. If you have, you will speak in other toungue.
>>>> Continued.

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Reply by : sorry   View Profile   Since : 20 Mar 2007 10:25:04 AM Close
Some of you say that once a person is saved, it is the Holy Spirit which worked out in him, so he already has got the power of Holy Spirit. Yes I agree. The power of Holy Spirit worked in his own spirit to make a new decision and believe in Jesus Chirst, which is good thing. But all those disciples of Jesus Christ were also having this same experience when they heard the word/call of Jesus and began to follow him. Do you think that Peter left all his net and boats and just followed Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not work in Him. If you believe in the triology of God, please try to understand that Holy Spirit is Jesus has worked in Peter's spirit and thus he started walking with Jesus. Then why these disciples and others had to receive the power of holy spirit on the 50th day of resurruction? Answer is - Jesus asked them to wait and receive it. He commanded them no to go out of Jerusalem unless they receive the power of Holy Spirit. So what happened when power of holy spirit came upon them? They all started speaking in other tongues. Peter who betrayed Jesus, after receiving the power of holy spirit started speaking to the crowed and 3000 were saved. When Paul visited Ephesus, he saw some people who claimed to be followers of Jesus, and he asked him "have you received holy spirit after believing in it"? They said - we did not even heard about the Holy Spirit. They were baptized again in the name of the Father, the son and the holy spirit and he laid his hands on them and they received the power of holy spirit. So my brothers, we need the power of holy spirit, which will come with definite proof of signs, i.e. speaking in other tongue, gift of tongues, and all other gifts of holy spirit. Dont jump over to conclude that Prophesies and gift of tongues are still. It is not you or me who can take a decision as such. There is no evidence in the holy bible that supports your opinion of cessation of these gifts. Please ask of God to forgive your sins and men to forgive iniquities & pray, you will receive
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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 20 Mar 2007 11:07:11 AM Close
Dear Sorry,

That is fine. Let us worship in 'tongues'. You start and I will try! Which tongue you prefer to
worship in?

How do you say, "Lord, I worship you, and thank you for saving me. Accept my worship in Jesus, Amen."

I will say what you say and you try to prove what you want to say.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 20 Mar 2007 11:59:53 AM Close
Dear 'sorry,'

Since you are sorry to write what you wrote on 20 Mar 2007 10:25:04, I unstand that what you wrote as your opinion is in contradiction to what is in the Word of God. Your opinion was stated as, "So my brothers, we need the power of holy spirit, which will come with definite proof of signs, i.e. speaking in other tongue, gift of tongues, and all other gifts of holy spirit. Dont jump over to conclude that Prophesies and gift of tongues are still. It is not you or me who can take a decision as such. There is no evidence in the holy bible that supports your opinion of cessation of these gifts. Please ask of God to forgive your sins and men to forgive iniquities & pray, you will receive."

since you are sorry about you opinion, let me assure you that you are wrong. You started another thread under the title, 'Why Not Worship in Tongue?' In that you implied that you are not a Pentacostal. On this you contradict that. A good testimony for a "sorry" man.

We will contimue this discussion on the other thread that you started after you answering my questions.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : samv   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2007 6:16:18 PM Close
Brother George P. Koshy,

Isn't not mentioned in Bible that people will have the ability to speak in tongues? Many claim that they can speak in tongues now a days.

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Reply by : samv   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2007 6:35:31 PM Close
According to Jesus Christ our Lord:

MARK 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 They will pickup snakes with their hands; and when they drink poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
20 Then the desciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

This means that those who believe can speak in tongues right? Then if we didn't believe it then we can't speak in tongues.

I would like to know the opinion from all our bretheren who had been very active in this forum

Thank you all and God bless you.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2007 9:52:27 PM Close
Dear 'samv',

See brother, not only speaking in tongue, we can pickup poisonous snake and play with them and we can even drink deadly poison!

I often wonder why we don't do this? Brother, instead of asking these questions, I would suggest to go ahead and drink some deadly poison and show this world that at least there is one beliver who wouldn't just stop at speaking in tounges, left in this world now!

Regards,

Tom J


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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 4 Apr 2007 8:04:21 AM Close
Dear Samv,

I wish you will read the portions you quoted from the Gospel of Mark, very slowly and carefully with prayer. Let me quote verse 20 from your posting: "Then the desciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it." Verse 20 is the answer to your question. What was given in verse 16-18 as "signs" (16:17) already took place as stated in verse 20 as "signs."

Of course, Pentecostals deny the scriptures when it says how the promises were fulfilled as recorded in the Word of God by the Holy Spirit. They have their own interpretation by denying the scriptures. Verse 20 says, "... confirming word with signs following." What were those "sings?" If they were recorded in verses 16-18 as referred to as "signs," then verse 20 affirms that those "signs" took place before the writing of the Gospel of Mark. We, as human, have a lot to learn to read what is written in the Word of God as it is written and not as we would like to read.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : samv   View Profile   Since : 6 Apr 2007 5:54:53 PM Close
Thanks to Br. George P.Koshy.
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