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# 01388 :  MY REPLY TO ‘SPECTATOR’S’ CATEGORICAL CHALLENGE
Dear Readers,

I start this thread because ‘spectator’ wrote on 13 Sep 2007 13:55:21 in the thread, “When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?”: ---<< As far as I can recall, I have not asked for any of your personal information. With all due brotherly respect towards you, I categorically challenge this statement and respectfully request that you please reveal any such request I have made on this forum, along with reference to the context it was asked. Otherwise, please rescind this statement you have made.>>---

Since my reply will not be on the context of that thread and this is a personal challenge, I thought of starting this thread. If ‘spectator’ denies that he did not issue a personal challenge, this is the expression he used, “I categorically challenge…”

Shalom Malekim!!!

Post by : George P. Koshy  View Profile    since : 19 Sep 2007


Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 10:16:05 AM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-1

I invite you to identify the author or authors of following parts of postings that appeared on this Forum, in the past. If you fail to identify the author or authors, I will be glad to do so.

1. ---<<I am just continuing further with these questions, and may it be know to all that this is not to defend the Brethren assembly beliefs, and therefore please do not post the defense for brethren assembly beliefs. This posting is just to know what this distinction (the no-Brethren stand) Br. George P Koshy is referring to, that Dr. Mathew taught him.>>---


2. ---<< Henceforth there are two communications between us on that link, which is not repeated here.

Yes I understand, I did not use an exact quote of your writing. Definitely it is my oversight. And you have well explained it as a difference in level of communication. Let us not please nit-pick and squabble on how it came about. I am here, listening and willing to understand what you mean. But I might need more clarification and explanation. What I tried to reveal to you was that I know that Dr. Mathew was an active, teaching member of a BRETHREN ASSEMBLY. (I think he was an elder of that assembly too. My information may be inaccurate about the eldership.)

Therefore I am again intrigued and if I may invoke the liberty and freedom on this forum in knowing what his teaching is, and if I may evoke you to please explain that in simple terms: what did he mean when Dr. Mathew said to you which you translated as “You will understand this truth later, Then, I am sure you will not be a Brethren.”?>>---

3. ---<< You come across several times over this forum and post that you are not Brethren, and as if “being Brethren” (taking the name or belonging to the Brethren Assembly/Chapel/Hall) is Anathema. Then, may I ask again, why not post the reasons for such belief? I am sure we all attend some where for congregational worship. The place you go, now, they have a name, don’t they?>>---

(To be cont. Part-2)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 10:17:07 AM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-2

4. ---<< I agree totally with dear Bro. GPK. And there are many more. However I just can’t let this opportunity go without taking a friendly jab at Br. GPK. He, who is not Brethren, should know! Or is it more about the EB that you know more of now?

[I agree with your stand in not disclosing yourself as a KB, OB, CB, EB or even a mere B. And PB, whom I love for his stand, convictions and spirit, i
n my humble opinion is not really in the right to challenge you in writing on this forum, a declared non-KB or non-B.]>>---

5. ---<< OK, you are pointing me to some lengthy discourse, from which I am to infer why you came to such conclusion why you don’t want to be called a ‘Brethren’. I am having great difficulty doing that. Meaning; deciphering your writing to construe your current position. It’s true, what you stated some days ago; we have a communication problem!
But please, don’t misconstrue what I have been asking you for all along. Never have I asked for or have been after anyone’s personal or identity information on this forum, like a few of you brothers have bee doing. And you should not be either. It is really not polite to do so. Like I have already explained, this forum allows alias. What part of that is not understood by you my brother?
>>---

I believe a sample of five is sufficient for our purpose. While identifying the author(s) of these, please also tell me whether the author(s) was insisting beyond any reasonable etiquette to provide more information than the other party was, in this case it is I, wish to provide? The first two, at least, are related to revealing personal communications that I had with Dr. A.P. Mathew. At that time, I told the author(s) that I will not do so, but he even started a new thread to force me to reveal all that I learned from Dr. A.P. Mathew. In that, light the identity of the author(s) of these will be beneficial. I need this before I offer my apology.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 1:00:35 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-A

In addition to the above five quotes, I also wish to present an additional one. I cannot find the original posting of this, but I could show who is the author of the following quote according to the law about the presentation of evidence in a civil court in USA. That law states, “Documents purporting to come from high antiquity and bearing upon their face no evident marks of forgery, if found in the proper repository, are deemed by the law to be authentic and credible, and the burden of proof to the contrary devolves upon the objector.” This is the law.

This is what I quote from the antiquity, ---<<"How are we even to know who you are? And who really cares? GPK means nothing to others or me on this forum. What is your address? What is your phone number? Which Church do you go to? Where do you come from? What is your profession? Who are your parents? How old are you? Are you married? Do you have Children? Do you have brothers, sisters and other family? What is your testimony in the Church, family and community? Does anyone know that?">>---

Is there any request for personal information, in this quote? The first three statements in the quote clearly show the mental attitude of the author towards me. May be my address, my phone number, my Church, Where I came from, my profession, the place where my parents are, my age, whether I am married or not, information on my children, information about my siblings, my testimony in the Church, family, and community, etc.; are not to be deemed personal. What do you say?

To this, I replied, ---<< I will answer them, provided you first answer them. After verification, I will post my answers. By the way, George P. Koshy (others save keystrokes by typing GPK) is my name, legal name by which I am known from my childhood.>>---

(To be cont.Part-B)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 1:01:24 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-B

Once the authorship of this above quote from antiquity is established, presumably with your help, I think your requirement as stated in the 13 Sep 2007 will be met. That request was, “I have not asked for any of your personal information. With all due brotherly respect towards you, I categorically challenge this statement and respectfully request that you please reveal any such request I have made on this forum, along with reference to the context it was asked.”

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 1:17:46 PM Close
Bro 'George P. Koshy',

Let me make it easy on you and the readers. I will bring the old thread from where you quoted so it is clear to all who read your quotes. I would have preferred that you just state you made a mistake or misunderstood and apologized. Such acceptance of error is not so unbecoming of a Christian. But you chose to go a different path. So be it.

Dear brother, in the above mail, you have quoted several contributors and you want me to identify them. I am not in the business of identifying the authors on this forum or wanting to identify them any further than what they have voluntarily done. The authors have identified themselves whatever they want to be called. It has been your desire to call them something other than what they want to be identified as. So, you are the one seeking after more identification and personal information. It is long overdue that you refrain from such desire. I hope we can accept what is there in the open and move forward. The entire contributing public on this forum cannot be brought to your little wishes and stubbornness in this matter of names and identity. It is high time that you accept this truth.

Continued.

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 19 Sep 2007 1:18:15 PM Close
Part-2

Let me state to you chronologically a summary of what was posted in discussions in the thread opened on March 30, 2005, posting number 00548 : 'The non-Brethren stand'.

1. You told the readers that you were taught by Dr. A. P. Mathew something about being called or not called a Brethren or brethren.
2. I asked you what is that spiritual or doctrinal teaching that you brought into the discussion voluntarily, that you learned from AP. Mathew.
3. You stated that is 'personal information' and that you wanted MY PERSONAL information before the doctrine taught by A.P. Mathew revealed.
4. It is not I but YOU are the one asking my personal information.

5. It has been your trait in the past to ask for personal information and you continue to do so.

This whole discussion is available in the thread - The non-Brethren stand.

Kindly please review and make a proper assessment and retribution from a Christian perspective.

I predict that neither I, nor anyone will be able to convince you of all this fact, as you already have this long standing misunderstanding.

Shall we stop here?

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 12:27:12 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-1

I only accepted your “categorical challenge” to show that you wrote or asked for personal information about me. When I posted the first two postings as Part-1 & 2, I asked you whether you could identify the author or authors of those five quotes. In answer to that, you are changing the rules of your “categorical challenge” to the context in which you asked for the personal information. At the same time, you did not admit that they were yours. You also wrote that they were from several contributors. No! They belong to the same person, you – “spectator.” Be a man! Claim the authorship. You even started the thread, ‘The non-Brethren Stand,’ to force certain personal information from me.

Why do you want to explain about the context without telling that you are the author? The authorship is what is in question and not its context. By subtly changing the question from its authorship to context, you are begging the question. In other words, you are trying to change the goal post to avoid being the recipient of goals. On the other hand, I am answering your question to the point.

Why are you silent on the second series of postings of mine, Posting-A & B? You are the author of that too. You made it in the thread “Tulip” on August 4 or 5, 2004, I think. On August 5, 2004, a few readers referred to it and I answered it on 6 Aug 2004 13:23:01. Soon after that you deleted your posting, may be because of its content. Removal of it does not make that you did not write it. I quoted it in my reply to you and therefore you were unable to delete it completely from the Forum.

(To be cont. Part-2)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 12:28:23 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-2

Let me quote what you wrote recently on 13 Sep 2007 13:55:21 in the thread, “When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?” ---<< As far as I can recall, I have not asked for any of your personal information. With all due brotherly respect towards you, I categorically challenge this statement and respectfully request that you please reveal any such request I have made on this forum, along with reference to the context it was asked. Otherwise, please rescind this statement you have made.>>---

Let me also quote once again what you, ‘spectator,’ wrote on august 2004 in the thread, “Tulip.” ---<<"How are we even to know who you are? And who really cares? GPK means nothing to others or me on this forum. What is your address? What is your phone number? Which Church do you go to? Where do you come from? What is your profession? Who are your parents? How old are you? Are you married? Do you have Children? Do you have brothers, sisters and other family? What is your testimony in the Church, family and community? Does anyone know that?">>---

If this is not a categorical inquiry into my personal information, what is it? The first three statements show your mind-set towards me. You asked for my address, my phone number, my Church, Where I came from, my profession, the place where my parents are, my age, whether I am married or not, information on my children, information about my siblings, my testimony in the Church, family, and community, etc. Of course, you do not want to know about certain other personal matters. I appreciate that. Now you say, “Shall we stop here” (19 Sep 2007)? Why you cannot admit that you asked for my intimate personal information, before we stop?

(To be cont. Part-3)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 12:29:47 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-3

You also made another posting on the thread “Brethren Doctrine” on 20 Feb 2004. References of ‘appreciations’ (it could be positive, negative, or neutral) are there, but your posting is missing. From the comments, I perceive that it was of the same character as the one you made on Aug 2004. Both of them are deleted. However, the evidence of their previous existence remains etched in the thread, as in an archeological site.

Do you think posting things against another in such terms and after a few days deleting to save you reputation in the future and then claiming that you do not do such things is Christian-like? It is also a cover-up in Nixonian style.

I refrain from asking for personal information about others other than the real names of the contributors. [There could be exceptions. An example: I asked brother Sambudhanoor about his native place in Kerala.] The purpose is to know the name with which God saved him/her. I do not think that the contributors on this Forum are not to behave like Bloggers, but like Christians with openness and transparency towards each other. On the other hand, you do demand more than the name without giving your own name and then you blame me. You even made demeaning comment about my name as seen in the Aug 2004 quote – the first three sentences.

Let me ask you a question, for clarification. Suppose you made certain personal communications with me. Also, suppose that I mentioned about this personal communication to more than one person without revealing the exact content, as I did with my personal communication with Dr. A.P. Mathew. Is it right for me to make it public, if another one asks about it? You may say, “No,” I suppose. Suppose that I refused to be bound by any confidentiality at the time of your communication, because you did not use your name but only your ID, “spectator.” Then could I make the communication known? If not, why not?

(To be cont. Part-4)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 12:31:21 PM Close
Dear ‘spectator,’
Part-4

The conversation I had with Dr. A.P. Mathew was personal. It was between him and me. I told about this before. I am repeating it again. I will not reveal it because someone who has no name, but only an ID, asked for it. At the same time, as I feel, I may reveal more and more occasionally about me. This I do voluntarily. When I do that, there are many who wonder loudly about that too. You and others must wait for the appropriate time to know more about my personal information, at my choice.

I do not know your name to be frank and transparent with you. This I have already made clear to you, even within the last 60 days.

Since I have shown you that you ask about personal information about me in such demanding manner, what do you say about your “categorical challenge?”

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 1:17:54 PM Close
Dear 'George P Koshy"

I am hoping this could be my final posting addressing this subject to you.

You opened this thread with the following - "I start this thread because 'spectator' wrote on 13 Sep 2007 13:55:21 in the thread, "When Did the Gift of Tongues Cease?":

---<< As far as I can recall, I have not asked for any of your personal information. With all due brotherly respect towards you, I categorically challenge this statement and respectfully request that you please reveal any such request I have made on this forum, along with reference to the context it was asked. Otherwise, please rescind this statement you have made.>>---"

Please see- "................................ along with reference to the context it was asked".. You have admitted that is exactly what I wrote.

Now you just said - "By subtly changing the question from its authorship to context, you are begging the question. In other words, you are trying to change the goal post to avoid being the recipient of goals. On the other hand, I am answering your question to the point."

How did I change the 'goal post"? THE CONTEXT PART WAS THERE IN MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.

Brother, please use your time more profitably, for the benefit of others and stop trying to slam dunk anyone pointing out your quirkiness.

Good bye.

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Reply by : george.p.alexander   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 2:39:16 PM Close
Very entertaining! To laugh or cry...that is the question.
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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 2:51:12 PM Close

Amidst serious discussions we need little entertainment.


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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 4:00:30 PM Close

Is there anything better than just laughing or crying?

I feel pity for the state of affairs here.

If entertainment is the aim why not try some stories or jokes that christian speakers use during their messages?

Any discussion on spiitual matters possible on this forum?

May the Holy Spirit guide us

Prayerfully

Mathew

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Reply by : Varghese   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 4:28:36 PM Close
This thread has spiraled out of control and is an example of how statements could be misrepresented & misread.

I have been trying to see if & where Bro. Spectator asked any personal information of Bro. Koshy.

[Quote]"How are we even to know who you are? And who really cares? GPK means nothing to others or me on this forum. What is your address? What is your phone number? Which Church do you go to? Where do you come from? What is your profession? Who are your parents? How old are you? Are you married? Do you have Children? Do you have brothers, sisters and other family? What is your testimony in the Church, family and community? Does anyone know that?"[/Quote]

This is what I gather from the above para. Maybe Bro. Spectator (or the author who wrote it) could clarify it if otherwise. To me, it simply means that it is not relevant to know who Bro. Koshy is or any info pertaining to his identity. That seems to be it! Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe the confusion may have risen from a poor choice of words.

I hope this should put to rest this sad state of affairs.

Let us move from analyzing each word under a microscope and try to use the time wisely & effectively for mutual encouragement & spiritual edification.

God Bless!

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 4:52:05 PM Close
Dear brother George P Koshy,

What is the meaning of "Shalom Malekim"? (It is not my desire to know the purpose of using it).

Your brother in Christ,

Mathew

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Reply by : titus2   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 4:54:45 PM Close
It is very sad to see how this discussion is coming along. For a layperson there is no big difference between a brethren with “B” or “b”. I don’t understand why make a big issue about that. When two believers get together they might ask which group they fellowship with. Mainly in this forum it is Brethren or Pentecost.
When one says, “I am not a Brethren but I’m a brethren” it intrigues one’s mind. For any person then the next question is then “what are you?”
Personally speaking I never felt Spectator was asking for any personal information. In fact he has said he doesn’t care about the personal info. I don’t think any one should be embarrassed to state which group they fellowship and identify with.
Bro. Koshy, I respect you for your wisdom and knowledge to correctly exhort from the word of God. I have learned many things from your writings. But as a much younger person reading this it pains to see that things are argued for the sake of argument, or prove one’s point right. Did you realize few who meaningfully contribute in this forum don’t want to communicate with you? Because they think it is meaningless and it will end like the argument we are having now. There is nothing to these conversations that will edify anybody or bring glory to God’s name. So why go after it. I personally would have expected from you with all the knowledge that you have you would have recognized it by now. Our Lord showed the other cheek when he was slapped. A simple explanation would have cleared everything. Why not take the high road?
This is exactly what happens in our assemblies too and then many blame the young people for leaving the assemblies. But they fail to see the greater speck in their own eyes. I again hope that you will take it in the right spirit.
God Bless
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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 5:09:17 PM Close
I did a search on this site and Google search, but did not find the following quote on any other topic other than this. If I am not wrong, it was a question by Sunila; I may be wrong, it is just from my recollection.

[Quote]"How are we even to know who you are? And who really cares? GPK means nothing to others or me on this forum. What is your address? What is your phone number? Which Church do you go to? Where do you come from? What is your profession? Who are your parents? How old are you? Are you married? Do you have Children? Do you have brothers, sisters and other family? What is your testimony in the Church, family and community? Does anyone know that?"[/Quote]

When we discuss Bible topics why do we need identification and what purpose does it serve? I am sure a person will suffocate if he identifies and write here. As far as I know all the Christian boards allow pseudonyms, just as this board too. I am not really bothered to know any body's identity here, least of Bro. George P. Koshy.

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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 5:33:01 PM Close
If Dr. A.P. Matthew were to be alive I would have shown the following verses just as I would like to show to Bro. George P. Koshy that people wondered if the actual 'brethren' of Jesus were those, who were described in the following verses. They were half-brothers, of course.

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. (Matthew 12:46 KJV)

Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (Matthew 13:55 KJV)

Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. (Matthew 27:56 KJV)

None of us are from that family, but we are all adopted children of God, whom Jesus called, 'brethren'.

And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (Mark 3:34 KJV)

Apostles called his 'brethren' as "Brethren" .

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. (1 John 3:13 KJV)

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (1 John 2:7 KJV)

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 20 Sep 2007 6:05:00 PM Close

Dearly beloved brother George P. Koshy,

I would like to mention few things concerning this matter with due respect to an elder brother.

It took quite some time for me to differentiate between Brethren and brethren probably because of my inability to grasp things fast (not so intellectual).

Dear brother, has anyone asked you whether you have switched from Brethren to brethren? What have you benefited from this switch from one to another?

Probably you might not have become a ‘brethren’ if you were not a ‘Brethren’ before.

Also in an earlier posting you mentioned that you once believed in the Gap Theory and then changed your position. Are you quite sure that your past position was wrong and the present one is right? (I do not believe in both).

We all once were sinners, now saved by the Grace of God, have become His children and are now delighted to call each other brethren.

Please forgive me in the love of God if this posting of mine has caused any displeasure in you. I am also willing to accept your admonition as a younger brother in Christ.

Yours in Christ Jesus

Mathew

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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 5:41:10 AM Close
And I thought I was the black sheep of the family!!!
This discussion is hilarious!! And entertaining!!! And of course highly edifying precisely because it makes me smile and even laugh!
Peace!
John Kurien
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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 8:08:19 AM Close
Dear brethren,

Did I ever say others should not calim to be "Brethren?" I did not. Did I ever say that all should call themselves to be "brethren?" I did not.

Did I say that I am not a "Brethren?" Yes, I did. Did I ever say that I am a "brethren?" Yes I did.

Who is making this differentiaon a big thing to discuss on this forum. One person is after me for more than three years. Another one even go on to say that I said, "I am not a brethren," and insists on it. When I asked for references to it, he is silent. Is this done in brotherly love, which I am directly or indirectly accused off?

If there is no difference, then why are you making it a point of contention? One who made this a serious issue on this Forum, issued a "categorical challenge" and demanded that I should recind the referce of his name as on. Then I am told that my statement and defense of my statement are not Christian like. If he doesn't want me to refer his name in this connection, he should not come after me.

Unfortunately, those who refuse to give even their names are the one who insist on personal information about me. Dear 'trds,' I am not insisting on the use of real names. I prefer to know it to have a bortherly relationship. If not, I find it difficult to have that relationship. I also ask for the real names of those who ask for my personal information. If any one try to be engaged is distructive postings, then I ask them to do it using their real name.

I agreed to abide by the rules of this Forum. One of them is the right to use a pseudonym. Another one is that no one should be engaged in trying to find the identity of others or place personal information on others on this Forum. Those who are after me have placed many personal information about me without my knowledge. One person even questioned by credibility. I failed to hear anything against these from any one. When I knew such information about those who were writing against me, I kept them for myself. I was keeping my word to this Forum.

Shalom Malekim

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 8:29:51 AM Close
Dear Mathew George,

You are not the first one who asked me about "Shalom Malekim!!!" Sometimes, they were personal inquiry and were given in personal reply. Let me provide it, as you asked for it.

They are coined from two Hebrew words. SHALOM means "peace" and MALEKIM means "reigns." Therefore, the expression "Shalom Malekim!!!" means "Peace reigns!!!"

This is not a Hebrew or Arabic greeting. They are different.

I coined it because of my fascination with our Lord Jesus Christ’s greetings to His disciples after His resurrection. He said, “Peace be with you,” or “Peace reign on you.” By the use of “Shalom Malekim!!!,” I mean that that peace that our risen Lord bestowed upon us, irrespective of my differences with any, reign on this Forum.

Let me also place another thing in this connection. I also follow the pattern of the letters to assemblies by the apostle and the Lord Jesus Christ. It may not be exact, but very close. Since I use may name as my sign-in ID, I do not use my name again in the body to show that it is mine. My name appears on my posting at the beginning as in the epistles. I also place the name(s) of those whom I address at the beginning as we see in the epistles. The body of the posting follows this. The posting closes with a greeting “Shalom Malekim!!!,” as in the epistles.

If you think that I am crazy, then that is what I am. I find that it is very easy to follow as per 1 Corinthians 11:1.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 8:42:52 AM Close
Dear Varghese,

You are right. Those questions to Bro. George P. Koshy, quoted above you and others referred to were to show how unnecessary it was to ask personal questions and it was not intended for knowing personal information. Even more interesting is that the context there (not fully disclosed to readers) was that; in that thread Bro. George P. Koshy was asking a contributor about his personal information (name I believe in that case) and insisting on wanting it. That was when I interfered and said it is not important to know any personal information of the contributors.

It is very sad to see that it is taken out of context and presented here as seeking personal information. Further even for a casual reader who does not know the real background and context like you and others are able to infer the proper meaning.

Any way to win an argument is the worlds’ and worldly way. It is very inappropriate for Children of God (B/brethren).

I have opposed anyone seeking after personal information in the past and I will continue to do so until the owners of this forum allow that policy. Such freedom allowed should not left at the mercy of personal desires and whims of a few on this forum. What advantage they are seeking from knowing ones name and personal information unless the author is willing discloses is not understood to me. Regardless, it is against the policy of this forum and Bro George P. Koshy and few others continually seek to violate it.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 9:23:23 AM Close
Dear Mathew George,

About Gap Theory: I know what I wrote.I know that there are various other theories. I also know that when one say that there is no gap, as opposed to Gap theory, it is not a theory. It is a statement about the verses in the Bible as given.

I also know that I don't have the time to go after or argue with any of the theories. Life is short. On the other hand, if I am challenged (this happened on this forum) I have to give an answer about my faith and this I will do. I don't like changing the rules of engagement after the challenge is accepted. If I challenge any, I should not change the rules of engagement in the middle of the engagement.

I only state my faith. When I do this, it is not apologetics. In that process, I may also point out the fallacies of other theories. I am also willing and ready to change what I believe on many things, if the other person could show me that my faith on those are wrong. It must be from the Word of God and not from outside of it.

If any makes demeaning statement about my God, His word, His method of revelation, and so on (all related with my God and not me as a person), then I have a fight to fight as described in Ephesian 6 and this will I do. This is becasue I know what I wanted to be and I also know what I became and I am grateful to my God for that.

Having said these, let me say that you could place what you believe on this subject. Please make it on a different thread.

You asked about my benefit to be known as a 'brethren.' There is no benefit. It is what I accept as the relationship that is extended to me by my Lord Jesus Christ, especially after His resurrection. If I am interested in benefits, I will not be writing these much to those who are adamant that I should be called a "Brethren." I write these, fully knowing that all my family relations and those who know me will come to know about this. Is that a benefit? So far, on this forum, it is not a benefit. It is my Lord's designation of my new position.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 9:36:32 AM Close
Dear 'trds,'

I ask 'spectator,' about his name, because he asked me about my personal information. It was on 6 Aug 2007. I copied his statement to show him that he asked for my personal information in connection with my refusal to be called a "Brethren." This is what he was challenging me about. I was only meeting his challenge.

If you think that when he asked for all those informations about me, if it was a rhetoric, why did he delete that posting. In my reply on 6 Aug 2004, I did not address anything other than asking him to provide similar information about him. By deleting that posting, soon after reading my reply, without any explanation, he showed what he was asking for. If it was not about my personal information, he would have explained it without deleting it.

If being called "Brethren" does not give any extra credit, then why are many insist that I should be called so? By that act, they are creating a denomination like all others around us.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 9:45:37 AM Close
Dear 'spectator,'

If the questions that I quoted were not to find about me, but just rhetorical questions, why didn't you explain it after my reply on 6 Aug 2004? Instead you deleted your posting. Why?

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : trds   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 9:59:45 AM Close
Bro. Koshy,

You know, today my wife has 'off'. Usually when she has "off" she either makes fried rice and curry chicken, or "Palappam" with some other delicious curry. I want to relish that in the evening. Enough of "Brethrenism". I do not find it relishing.

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 10:23:32 AM Close
Dear brethren,

When we see Satan rejoicing while there is contention among the brethren, it is the believer's responsibility to put a stop to such contention at any cost. I see some writings that this discussion is ‘entertaining, hilarious’ etc. I believe it is sad and something to grieve about.

I could see the reaction of Satan the same way as some have phrased it. So, dear brethren, let's move on with more profitable discussions. Let's not give victory to Satan.

I am willing to take the risk of losing a point on the forum which will be an ultimate victory for the Lord, and I am sure Bro George P. Koshy and others would also agree to it.

2 Cor 2:11 "Lest Satan take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices."

Thank you.

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 10:40:52 AM Close
dear bro.spectator,
A good thought...it takes courage & humility to look beyond making your point but at a bigger picture...I hope you understand what I meant. God Bless! Take care.

A fellow sister,
Judy.

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Reply by : beracah   View Profile   Since : 21 Sep 2007 10:40:14 PM Close
Dear Spectator,
Let us leave behind issues that are of no consequence and move on.

DT 1:6 The LORD our God said to us at Horeb,

"You have stayed long enough at this mountain. 7 Break camp and advance into the hill country of the Amorites; go to all the neighboring peoples in the Arabah, in the mountains, in the western foothills, in the Negev and along the coast, to the land of the Canaanites and to Lebanon, as far as the great river, the Euphrates. 8 See, I have given you this land. Go in and take possession of the land that the LORD swore he would give to your fathers--to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob--and to their descendants after them."

The LORD be with you.

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Reply by : kbr   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 12:33:33 AM Close
I remember once drjcp wrote something like this, not in exact words, "If we have enemies among us no need for enemies from outside"

Now I find enemies are from the moderator group itself!

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Reply by : ageorge1   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 1:10:06 AM Close

Dear Brethren,

Quote

"And I thought I was the black sheep of the family!!!
This discussion is hilarious!! And entertaining!!! And of course highly edifying precisely because it makes me smile and even laugh!
Peace!
John Kurien"

It is good for us to put and end such minor things which is of no spiritual edification rather it gives a place to enter the enemy in and is at the door to mock the "brethren" seeing all the things and he is simply laughing.

The above quoted is self explanatory and we should really think of it and understand.Our prime duty is that we should allow him in a place in our our lives.

Regards,

A.George

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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 5:03:21 AM Close
hahahah full time pass.... with all Brethren and brethren..... bunch of hypocrites...as i posted earlier GPK has gone old ....so better not to have discussion with him it will be waste of time or you will have such discusion.. coz of these kind of people youths are going away from Brthn Asmbls..... thanks GPK you set an wonderful example for us...
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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 5:08:46 AM Close
what is the use of that knowledge & wisdom if he/she can not show love towards his /her brother or sis....we knw to preach about love and pso lengthy message....part 1 to part V..... but just fail to have that in our own life then what is the use of that knowledge &wisdom.... lot more to write better to stop here...
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Reply by : kbr   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 6:12:23 AM Close
<<Did I say that I am not a "Brethren?" Yes, I did. Did I ever say that I am a "brethren?" Yes I did.>>

What is the meaning of the above quotation? can anybody explain, please. How could a singular person become "Brethren" or "brethren" ? Which logic are they following ? 'The rabbit that I caught has three horns'!!

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 11:54:49 AM Close
Dear tillu,
I apologize in advance to what I am about to say, especially if I hurt your feelings by it, but I felt I should...

1. This really is a sad and tired old, statement.I have heard it a thousand times and it is the lamest excuse in the book !!!!...

"coz of these kind of people youths are going away from Brthn Asmbls.."

I understand where this is coming from and I, too, once thought on these lines but then I got to think...
Why do the "youths" look at others and spend so much energy and time figuring out who the hypocrites are?
Why not strive to spend time and energy to better their own relationship with the Saviour ?
Why not spend more time looking unto God rather than what the other is doing or not doing? Perhaps spending more time in prayer and concentrating on learning what the scripture has to tell them, might be a better use of time for the "youths".
So the leaving of the youths from any assembly, cannot be all blamed on some or other fellow believers.... It is easy to project our shortcomings in our relationship with God and lay it at someone else' doorstep.
The blame game is getting old!! Beside if they are "hypocrites" they are answerable to God at the end of the day.
We all have our hypocrisies...whether we admit it or face it!

2. Before you point out faults, show a little respect and courtesy when you address another human being.
It is sad you feel the need to write juvenile remarks like "..as i posted earlier GPK has gone old..". It was a very petty remark!!
If you don't agree with a fellow brother/sister, you can always get that point across, in a mature, respectful way. The point will still be understood very well.

I do hope you get what I wanted to say, and think about it. I am hoping you will think about it. Take care.

Judy.

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Reply by : mathewgeorge   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 5:27:18 PM Close
Dear brother George P Koshy

I asked the meaning of Shalom Malekim exclusively for my knowledge. I tried to relate the two words Salam (Shalom) meaning peace and Malik (malek) meaning king. I now understand what you meant and my sincere thanks. I dare not call any body crazy for some one’s fascination, belief or thinking.

I thank and praise God for a gifted brother who is very zealous about spiritual matters and our God.

My mention of the ‘brethren’ issue is to ask you about the benefits of your shift from ‘brethren in Brethren’ to ‘brethren in brethren’. Does your tough poison/explanations in this regard add any value to the readers here? Forgive me; I consider it too insignificant in a discussion on a forum like this. Please note I was not adamant.

My mention of the Gap theory was to say that you had once changed your position in this case also.

As regards God’s creation of the universe, I have no difficulty in believing the narration as found in Genesis and other parts of the scripture. God has revealed to us that which is essential for us to know. What we sometimes try to do is to reason with scientific ideas and tell the intellectual world behind it that the record we find in Genesis is right. God has set rules and principles also while He created the universe; that is to say a system for the functioning, growth etc. Our (any one who thinks otherwise is exempted) knowledge of the universe and everything in it is very little (all the intellectual heads and scientists put together) and neither can I boast to know everything nor claim to know more than others do.

I don’t consider this forum suitable for presenting such an item due to the disorderly nature. Personally too (my apologies) I do not wish to share it at this moment AS I AM STILL PRAYING AND STUDYING ABOUT IT. God willing, I may seek your assistance or share some thoughts as necessary at the appropriate time.

I have no challenge to place before you brother and I am not even capable of taking up any challenge from any one.

Your brother in Christ

Mathew

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 5:37:48 PM Close
trds,

<<<<<I did a search on this site and Google search, but did not find the following quote on any other topic other than this. If I am not wrong, it was a question by Sunila; I may be wrong, it is just from my recollection.>>>>>>>

Trds,
Please don't do this to me. The quote is not from me. I didn't start writting in 2004. I started in April 2005.

I know who GPK is. My uncle, Joy Samuel (TKS' son)told me. "George P. Koshy" is not "George Koshy,Mylapra", if you have any doubt. George Koshy, Mylapra is my first cousin.

Sunila.

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 22 Sep 2007 5:44:57 PM Close
GPK,
Let me tell you, "sharedconcept" who wants to debate with you is my second cousin. We didn't recognize under secret user id.

Sunila.

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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 23 Sep 2007 1:17:21 AM Close
Dear Mom 23
many thanks for you mom kind advises...next time i will put in more presentable way ok but you are just going out of track.... you dont need to take it seriously cooooll down in the past also GPK is doing the same thin how can you expect from others to give respect to him look its better then you dont talk all big things but in small things we are not faithfull then ???
mom23 also let me tell you a child learns from his/her parents only if parents show them the right direction and they have to set an example in front of their kids ... its not only about me but they are lot of people here who wants to say about this hypocrisy.... which some of them already posted....

dear sis judy ... dont take it otherwise even i dont want to post this but if some one senior like GPK do like this then you cannt just stop urself posting this....well i do agree with you that we should spen out time in more productive things rather wasting our time on this site which is just of no use these days.....

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 23 Sep 2007 8:10:43 AM Close
Dear tillu,
I do understand the point you were trying to make actually, coz like I said there are times I feel the same way too. But all I said is turning yourself to God for setting an example will make all the rest trivial.
We forget something very important...all these older folks, are all human after all and they will err somewhere or the other.
So it is best to look unto our saviour for guidance in all our small and big decisions and not our fellow man.....they can never be perfect!!!!
But I know it is hard not to say something once in a while, right?

By the way, thank you so much for presenting your thoughts so nicely. I really appreciate that gesture of yours.
So sorry, my dear, that I came across all "mommy" kinds....that wasn't my intention, but thank you anyway. Take care.

Judy.

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 23 Sep 2007 8:11:51 AM Close
Dear sister Sunila,
Good to see you back. Take care.

Judy.

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Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 12:50:43 AM Close
Dear brethren in Christ,


Please let the Holy spirit guide us in what we write and what we think, I hope we all are born again believers, one in Christ, sanctified by the precious blood of our savior Jesus Christ,
As all those who are in this forums are placed in different parts of this world, and hope discussing spiritual matters, earlier I was also using pen name, and while using pen name we feel that we have the liberty to challenge or interfere in unwanted challenges and debates,and wait for other responses, I feel using our own name and identity if required will be make a healthy spiritual discussion, rather making anonymous comments , no one is spirtually and thelogically perfect, and let each one of us have a submissive mind and wait for other answers, if you feel it it wrong respond it with proper spiritual references and findings, if you feel it is correct, acknowledge it with whole heart and praise God for the way the Holy Spirit reveals us.And let us be called followers of Christ, or Christians.

Conversation of Jesus and Satan
Mathew 4:
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Contd/-
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 12:53:47 AM Close
Contd/-
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


Satan asks Jesus three things to do , which was properly replied with reference to the God word, likewise when we give replies , let it be not man made, but all referred to the word of God, if not better let us remain silent.

Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 5:42:58 AM Close
It is good that the likes of Mom23 and A.George get panicky. The whitewash is not thick enough dear sister and brother to cover the divisions in your own camp. But then, a group that has always sought to divide the "believers" into those who belong to their special category and those outside must suffer the consequences. Brethrenism is not so much about following Jesus as believing that "Brethren" are one cut above all the rest. So naturally, those who do not care to see themselves as so "special" and question this "speciality" will be treated badly. What began in division must also end in division. In the end, these divisions in Brethren camps are becoming deeper and deeper whether they like it or not. That is why young brothers who can see the hypocrisy like Tillu must be asked to keep quiet by "mommy". But all this subterfuge and whitewash is not going to work in the days to come. "There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed", said Jesus. The proud, yes, those who are spiritually proud will face greater judgement than those who are simple believers. And who is the one who is spiritually proud? Is it not the one who in his heart and mind thinks that others who say soemthing on this site are "fools"?
God is judging those hearts and minds. "The rich he sends emptyhanded away, but the hungry he does fill."
John Kurien
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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 5:58:36 AM Close
DEAR MOM 23 -
You wrote:
<<Why do the "youths" look at others and spend so much energy and time figuring out who the hypocrites are? Why not strive to spend time and energy to better their own relationship with the Saviour? Why not spend more time looking unto God rather than what the other is doing or not doing? Perhaps spending more time in prayer and concentrating on learning what the scripture has to tell them, might be a better use of time for the "youths". So the leaving of the youths from any assembly, cannot be all blame on some or other fellow believers.... It is easy to project our shortcomings in our relationship with God and lay it at someone else' doorstep.>>>
I just think that this response of yours to Tillu is the standard "lamest" reply that older people can ever give to younger people. Just as you "know' where Tillu is coming from, young people like him also "know" where your reply comes from.
I hope I have not hurt you by putting it so bluntly, but there it is. It is exactly as I said - You think you know where the young man is coming from and you have a standard answer or rebuke for him, but trust me, he knows where you are coming from too! I appreciate his sensitivity and sensibility that does not seek to whitewash and cover up what he has discovered, whether it is about why people leave the Brethren(my my that hurts, doesn't it?)or why he doesn't care about getting into a discussion with the old and cantankerous George P Koshy. I wonder if you can see the point I am making. Or will what I write give you and the others opportunity to condemn me?
John Kurien
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 2:43:06 PM Close
Dear Bro.John,
Sir....you completely lost me on this theory of your's....the division in camps...the whitewash (??)...seriously..."Say what, now???"
You do realize you are projecting the chip on your shoulder on me....
I do realize you have a bone to pick with "brethren" or "Brethren"...(I honestly am lost on that fact!!!)...but don't unecessarily come to conclusions or assume things and presume to know me or where I come from.
You assumed I attend a brethren church...you would be sadly mistaken if you did. You are so mistaken in my age by the way...but obviuosly I sound far mature than my age...I am going to take that as a compliment!! And I am proud to be a "mommy" to my babies...please,do not trivialize that with your idea of what I was trying to say.

You are welcome to your opinions but all I had asked "tillu" was
1. to word his arguments properly, because an argument can be put across without demeaning someone.
2. to look to our Lord and not the fellow man as an example coz the fellow man will always come short.

You have no idea about my beliefs or faith, they are not solely governed by the church I attend. I have learned by my experience to look only unto the Lord and that is all I had tried to impart.

And nowhere does the scriptures teach us to demean (also sarcastic) and be rude (name calling) to an older human being just because you disagree with him/her. If you feel a fellow brother doesn't do that, you can still choose to set an example, by being respectful...but that is your choice!!
You are older than me, there have been numerous times I have disagreed with you ( I have not voiced all of them), the same as with others on this forum, but I would never call you "old and cantankerous", or other such juvenile names.That is just not right...no matter what!
And people pick their arguments, dear sir,we all do not have the ability or the inclination to go on picking on every word and harping on and on about the same point...do not mistake that for being in agreement with someone!!

Judy

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 2:56:20 PM Close
mom23,
This is the "dangerous edge". This is the fall season also. If you step on that dangerous edge, you will fall into the deep hell. (even if you are holy). I think you lost in your words.
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 3:03:20 PM Close
By the way, bro.John, my above post was not to condemn you...but just to ask you not to jump to conclusions on people.
Harping on the problems of any assembly does not solve the problem...for change to take place you need to be more pro active, that means a lot of change...firstly with our own attitudes and our own families before we look to others. It means to think outside the box and stop worrying about community acceptance...basically letting others decide your spiritual walk/beliefs for you....what is wrong and what is right based on a mixture of cultural beliefs, traditions etc. We forget our walk with the Lord is so individualistic and cannot be dictated by someone else....individual or group.

Like I said before, sometimes the choices we make in life can cause the fellow man to observe and think...a sort of small time evangelism....which is so difficult to do sometimes as it can meet so much pressure, from our loved ones who want us to confirm to the norm. So, it requires prayer, patience and dilligence, not so much an antagonistic attitude...that just does not solve the problem!!
Hope you see the lines in which I am thinking in...sorry if I across too heavy on you on the previous post. Take care, dear sir...

Judy.

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 3:10:01 PM Close
Judy,
You don't have to say for GPK. GPK knows what he did. He was twisting ideas with words, which makes everybody to call him name. You don't have to say he is old and so bear him. All older people are not like him. You can say "we have the hospitality to accommodate him". That is all I want to say. I don't want to watch another fight very closely.

Sunila.

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 24 Sep 2007 6:19:10 PM Close
Don't worry my dear sister Sunila, I understand where your point comes from and you have to stand up for what you believe in...sometimes it can be against an older person. I do understand your emotions about Bro.Koshy. If you read my post carefully, all I said was it is not right to call names to make a point, whoever they maybe...

So, if we have a disagreement, we discuss it properly , right? Not by any form of name calling...today it is him, tomorrow it could be anyone else...

Several of our older brothers have all discussed their points, when there was arguments, with dignity and restraint, even when they were called names. That is a good example to follow.
Hope you are doing well otherwise sister. Take care.

Judy.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 1:37:24 AM Close
Dear John Kurien

Are you come back for a fight again, it seems that you are inviting for a fight by name calling “old and cantankerous”, will you please stop it.

Moms23 remarks are notable.

There is a phrase in Malayalam “pazhuthilla vizhumpol pachilla chirikkum” when the old leaves become yellow and fall the green leaves laugh. Is the younger will not get old, how in this forum knows a person is young or old?

If we use the Words of Grace we can communicate with anybody of opposite opinion, which will not produce any bitterness or infighting.

Col 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.

If we need to produce the words of grace we need to be under the control of the Holy Spirit, which results in the produce of fruit of spirit.

Our carnal man is in the front side which is in the fighting mood.

We do not like to see infighting and see edifying posts, which mutually benefits us.

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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 2:48:29 AM Close
Dear Br Sambudhanoor
I am not here to fight and I do not understand why you want to challenge me to a fight quoting bits and pieces from my post.
When I use words like "old and cantankerous", they are used not in a demeaning sense but a factual sense. I also believe that Sister Judy understands my intentions while you may not.
So will you please give up your principle of finding fault with me (some of you have become specialists in this aspect)and do something more edifying? If you insist on finding fault with me then all I can do is ignore you.
John Kurien
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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 3:33:59 AM Close
Dear John Kurien

The fault is not only with you but in other side also while expressing the words, but they are not in discussion, that is why I requested you to please refrain from that.

My intention is to stop the infighting only. We all are have the freedom to express our opinion, but the words will not be hurting to others, if we use the Words of Grace.

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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 5:46:13 AM Close
Dear all

its better we dont discuss about this my apologies for that post but please understand i never wanted to hurt anybody with that post but honestly trd of seeing ths kind of people everywer... u can c in our asmbls also all achayan's given gud sermons but when it comes to small small things they are not practsing the same which the preached... then what is the use of telling others.once agian i am sorry for that i take back my words

but u can c there are other seniours also in this site and they way they responsd its really gud...

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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 5:48:16 AM Close
sorry for the typo... n grammtcl errors.....
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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 8:14:47 AM Close
mom23,
<<<<<<< I do understand your emotions about Bro.Koshy..>>>>>>>

What do you mean by my emotions about Br. Koshy?

I can keep quite if I want. Just for understanding let me tell you, we are the least important people on earth compared to other pastors and evangelist. Those who come in this net has nothing else to do other than this. They are doing in their free time. Then why do you worry, if two people are engaging in coversation. Why do you have to study their charector and history from point to point. If you get something spiritualy, that is good for you also. Do you believe everybody. I don't believe them even if I see them face to face.

I don't know which point you "picked" my "emotions".

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 8:24:51 AM Close
mom23,
<<<<<<<So, if we have a disagreement, we discuss it properly , right? Not by any form of name calling...today it is him, tomorrow it could be anyone else...>>>>>>>>>

That is right. If we have any disagreement, we talk about it. Disagreement about what. It is disagreement about what is written in the bible.

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Reply by : swj   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 9:03:07 AM Close
mom23,
I know you don't want to put me in the corner. You want to bring me to the front of the house and beat.

Sunila.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 25 Sep 2007 10:20:54 AM Close
Ummm.. The tower of Babel is rising above the sky!!!

Tom J

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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 26 Sep 2007 12:58:00 AM Close
Dear Mom23 and Sister Sunila -
I think what is needed is some reassurance to Sister Sunila that she is not "under attack". I have been watching how several people have been pouncing on her ever since she spoke honestly about her beliefs about the power and working of the Holy Spirit on the "tongues" thread. Since then she has received only brickbats.
Why is it that you cannot receive another who comes in the name of Jesus or is "doctrine" the plumb line. The Pharisees had their doctrine right and they were rejected.
I believe that this space should be kind towards those who do not adhere to a specific singular doctrine that is promoted by some people here. That will lead to less name-calling and threatenings and revilings.
God bless us to move in that divine love that goes beyond doctrinal divisions and hatreds.
John Kurien
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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 26 Sep 2007 2:02:20 AM Close
Dear Br Tillu
Many of the things you have pointed out are absolutely correct and honest. Your good heart is also seen in that you feel sad even when you have to point out some truths. God bless you much. Ask the Lord where you would find genuine fellowship if you cannot find it in your assemblies. There are many "cities of refuge" that the Lord Jesus is building afresh in these end times. And many churches, He is also removing the candlestands. So seek Jesus with all your heart and He will show you where to go and where to find genuine living faith and fellowship.
God bless you much.
John Kurien
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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 26 Sep 2007 4:44:11 AM Close
Thanks Br JK God Bless you too

TC

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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 28 Sep 2007 11:00:07 AM Close
Let me ask you this Bro.John K...what did you see in the above posts by me, that showed I was attacking.
Please bear with me, this is out of curiousity I ask...because sometimes we fail to see our own faults. I am not talking about other posts or others' opinions or previous posts etc..., but what in my above posts justifies hers ? Could you be clear?
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 28 Sep 2007 11:02:38 AM Close
Dear Tillu,
I wanted to say sorry for having dragged you into a discussion between bro.John K and myself. I was justing using what you said as an example coz it was fresh in our minds....but I apologize if you felt bad. Take care.

Judy.

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Reply by : kurienjohn   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2007 7:27:32 AM Close
Dear Sis Judy
I didn't say that you had attacked Sis Sunila in your posts but that she had been subjected to attack otherwise from others.
Hope that clarifies things.
<<<mom23, I know you don't want to put me in the corner. You want to bring me to the front of the house and beat. Sunila.>>
I felt she was reacting to the barrage unleashed at her on the tongues discussion through these lines and was just cautioning you not to join the bandwagon that attacks people on this site especially with regard to this sister.
John Kurien
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2007 8:43:21 AM Close
Hmmmm!...I guess we all have our perceptions and views....but since I am not convinced about your view of "cautioning", it makes me wonder....if there was no "attack", why the "caution" to me ??

Anyway,I shall just commit all this to prayer...especially for my attitude/perception/reaction etc ...


God Bless!

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Reply by : tillu   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2007 11:55:26 PM Close
Dear Sis Judy
thats fine u dont need to say sorry for that... its ok i dint felt bad
God Bless TC
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