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# 01464 :  Wearing the shoe
Dear Brothers,
We have issue in our assembly, so please commens about it.
Some brothers believe the assembly is holy place so we sould not wear shoe or chappels and they refer the Mosed while he was with God. But some says the assembly is not a holly place, we weare shoe
Your commens from the word of God will be very valueable for me
Regard
Thoma K
Post by : thomaskuruvila  View Profile    since : 30 Nov 2007


Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 30 Nov 2007 8:17:36 AM Close
Dear Thomas Kuruvila,

I am interested to know, what is meant by "assembly." Is that the building that is used for gathering of the saints? Or, is that the body and bride of Christ. Is that what Christ said that He will build in Matthew?

Please explain.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 30 Nov 2007 10:46:33 AM Close
Dear br. Thomas in Christ,

Any where two or three gather in my name , God presence is there, am I right or wrong , it is what the scripture say.

Is the assembly where we gather where we hope God is in our midst , doesnt even have the importance than our residence, if we go to anyones house , as a mark of respect and courtesy without telling itself we remove our shoes, so that the furnishing and carpets may not be spoiled.Doesnt our Heavenly Father deserve respect in all means, physically and spiritually, matter for us to think.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 30 Nov 2007 11:32:17 AM Close
An Assembly building is not holier than any other building. Some denominations such as the Roman Catholics, Orthodox etc. do certain rituals and declare a particular building as holy. Such practice is unscriptural. Somehow the Brethren also fall into this misunderstanding. They do not do anything [rituals] to make the place the holy, but somehow think there is something special about a building.

A Christian cannot be too far from the holy place or too close, no matter where he goes or what he does. God resides inside a believer. How can he be anywhere other than close to the holy place?

But in a place like India where the roads are dusty and the buildings are not tightly closed, it is a good idea to remove the shoes for better hygiene. But linking that to a strict rule to follow is a misunderstanding of the scriptures.

There is no explanation given to us why God asked Moses to remove the shoes except God said the ‘ground you are standing is holy’. God’s immediate presence and one-on-one interaction with Moses made that place very unique and certainly holy.

No matter how we try to interpret this event, since the Bible is not giving much explanation we should not be very dogmatic. But I see a co-relation and I will state it here.

Shoes are worn to prevent the dirt from the ground getting to someone’s feet. When God appeared, He was able to transform the unholy ground to be the holy ground. Such an event made the human effort of trying to be pure and holy unnecessary. There is no need for ‘shoes = human effort’, when God pronounces something holy it becomes holy.

This could be the biblical reason for it, although I am not being dogmatic. But in anyways the popular misunderstanding in Kerala / India or Indian Assemblies elsewhere requiring the shoes to be removed for anything other than cleanliness or better hygiene has no biblical basis.

But in a cultural settings where the removal of shoes show common courtesy, I would gladly oblige.

Tom J

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 4:47:39 AM Close
Dear Br.Tom in Christ,

I am not against you post , I just want to clarify one thing, why do we remove our shoes and keep it on a rack outside when we visit our friends house or our own house in any part of the world. Firstly we give respect to the members who are staying inside the house, secondly the hygienic problem. Does our heavenly father not deserve respect, I am not against anyones comments, The relgion Islam is 600 years after the ascension of our savior, what they have been taught as per thier scriptures they follow cent percent perfect, washing the feet, hands , ears , face before they go for prayers, in any part of the world,

We split hairs of each verses of the scriptures and try to justify, wherever we reads saints praying in the scriptures it is mentioned kneeling and praying, and we believers also have been doing a couple of generation back, but things are different, there were mats, so we cannot stamp the mats with the shoes. If we respect our Heavenly Father spritually and physcially we will be honoured. We take the fear of God for granted, because we have feet we put shoes, if we dont have ?


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : samv   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 5:40:02 AM Close
God advised Moses to remove the shoes because, the ground was Holy due to the presence of the Lord. Meaning, the Lord was standing on that ground.

Scripture reference:
God said, "Don't come any closer! Take off your sandals because this place where you are standing is holy ground.

I personally believe that it's a good practice to remove your chapels while you are in a worship meeting; and I do hope that our assemblies will follow this.

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Reply by : thomaskuruvila   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 5:52:36 AM Close
Dear brothers,
I respect your comments but few things I wanted to mention. It is not for arguments but to get clear.
1.We don't need to remove the footweare in every houses because some house the members themself weare them inside the house and they allow us to weare it inside.
2. While we sit 2.5 or 3 hours in our assemblies I have seen many old age people suffering from the cold efecting to thier feet from the floor. So why we can't consider them?

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 7:58:58 AM Close
Dear Br.Thomas in Christ,

Let me make bit more clear from your two points,

<<.We don't need to remove the footweare in every houses because some house the members themself weare them inside the house and they allow us to weare it inside.>>

Some of the house members those who wear the sandals inside are only meant for inside and those worn outside are not worn inside. Secondly with the PERMISSIONS of the house owner they allow at times to wear the shoes, that means we try to remove and they insist not to , you can wear.

<< 2. While we sit 2.5 or 3 hours in our assemblies I have seen many old age people suffering from the cold efecting to thier feet from the floor. So why we can't consider them?>>

No restrictions , it is considered in all gatherings, it can be exempted, but inside the shoes there are socks which can be a protective shield from the cold affecting our feet, out of 168 hours should we be much particular about the 7 hours maximum we spare in a week as a gathering . Think about our Savior who had all privileges of heaven yet lived like a man in this world suffered on the cross of calvary bearing all scoffing and insults for us , there were no shoes when his feet were nailed for us, there was no shawl or cap on his head when his head was crowned with thorns , there were no gloves on his hand when his hands were pierced, there was no cloth on his body when he was pierced with spear on the brow. We have all privileges hence to suffer a bit we take too much precautions. Let our privilges what we have now remain continously.


Yours loving brother in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : kumbanadan   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 9:42:12 AM Close
Whatever be the theology & arguments, we dont allow foot wear in our assembly, even if it is a foreigner in 3 piece suit.Those who have a cold feet can sit in the comfort of their home wearing shoes & not in the assembly with shoes.
These days mobile is also forbidden because there were a few occassionas when visitors were running out to answer call while the word minsitry is in progress.
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Reply by : thomaskuruvila   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 2:22:05 PM Close
Dear brothers thanks for your participation on this subject, may God bless you all.
Dear brother Samuel, will you be patient to explain few more things about the verse you pointed? << Any where two or three gather in my name , God presence is there>>
Presence of God means what kind of presence?
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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 1 Dec 2007 7:32:53 PM Close
Dear brothers and sisters,

Elders have discretion to permit or not permit wearing of shoes or sandals within a meeting.

However, there is no explicit mention anywhere in the pattern laid out for New Testament believers that wearing of shoes in a meeting is a sinful practice. To say that you MUST remove sandles and shoes is nothing but personal opinion.

Phil 3:3 - For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the SPIRIT, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have NO CONFIDENCE IN THE FLESH.

I believe these are simple traditions of men that are practiced for good reasons but slowly creep in as legalistic man-made rules that have no biblical backing. If the elders decide that the believers in the assembly should not wear shoes, then that's fine as God has given them authority to make wise decisions. But to say that assemblies that permit wearing of shoes or sandals is permitting something sinful or less reverential is another example of manmade legalistic rules.

>>Think about our Savior who had all privileges of heaven yet lived like a man in this world suffered on the cross of Calvary bearing all scoffing and insults for us, there were no shoes when his feet were nailed for us, there was no shawl or cap on his head when his head was crowned with thorns, there were no gloves on his hand when his hands were pierced, there was no cloth on his body when he was pierced with spear on the brow. We have all privileges hence to suffer a bit we take too much precautions. Let our privileges what we have now remain continuously.

This example has nothing to do with the discussion. It is more of an appeal to emotion and not scripture. What are you trying to imply by bringing such examples?

There are so many assemblies that allow the wearing of shoes let alone even consider this as an issue. To say that they do not revere God compared to an assembly that does not wear shoes is just another example of judgment based on outwardly appearance.

We worship God in spirit not in the flesh.

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2007 6:28:03 AM Close
Dear "believer.bible"

<<This example has nothing to do with the discussion. It is more of an appeal to emotion and not scripture. What are you trying to imply by bringing such examples?>>
Reply by : thomaskuruvila Since : 1 Dec 2007 05:52:36 2. While we sit 2.5 or 3 hours in our assemblies I have seen many old age people suffering from the cold efecting to thier feet from the floor. So why we can't consider them?
Reply by : samuel.v.j Since : 1 Dec 2007 07:58:58 .No restrictions , it is considered in all gatherings, it can be exempted, but inside the shoes there are socks which can be a protective shield from the cold affecting our feet, out of 168 hours should we be much particular about the 7 hours maximum we spare in a week as a gathering .Think about our Savior who had all privileges of heaven yet lived like a man in this world suffered on the cross of calvary bearing all scoffing and insults for us , there were no shoes when his feet were nailed for us, there was no shawl or cap on his head when his head was crowned with thorns , there were no gloves on his hand when his hands were pierced, there was no cloth on his body when he was pierced with spear on the brow. We have all privileges hence to suffer a bit we take too much precautions. Let our privilges what we have now remain continously.

It was a reply to "thomaskuruvilla "post.

Again I say brethren I am not against any of the brethrens post. It depends upon each and everyones understanding. But one thing was there this practice of wearing shoes were not there where we were born and brought up in the previous generations in the place of Kerala and India, Our God is a loving God but he is a zealous God too, but influences have made many of new practices creep into.


Yours
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : george.p.alexander   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2007 8:49:15 AM Close
<<wearing shoes were not there where we were born and brought up in the previous generations in the place of Kerala and India,>>

In other words, it is the tradition of those who "were born and brought up in the previous generations in the place of Kerala and India" and not any pattern laid out by the apostles. I also doubt it if the two three generations ago that shoes were common.

>>influences have made many of new practices creep into

This will depend from generation to generation. One generation went to meetings on bare foot, basic clothes etc. Next generation bought shoes, vehicals, good looking clothes also. Maybe tommorow's generation might use hand held computers for reading their Bible. But who are we to condemn?

Previous generation never used hair dyes to darken their hair. Now the older generation uses hair dyes to keep their hair dark and this is not a problem. But if someone colors their hair, the same people will condemn those who color their hair. Isn't this hypocrisy?

The Bible should be the baseline for all matters and that can never change. But what can change are traditions and practices of men.

I also used to think that wearing shoes was a sign of disrespect until I moved out of Kerala to more metro cities and also abroad. In these places, these are not even things people even think about. But when someone from Kerala hears such things, they blow it out of propotion and make it a big issue because their yard stick is not the Bible but their personal opinions and the traditions they were brought up in.

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2007 11:30:51 AM Close
Dear Br.George in Christ.

<<they blow it out of propotion and make it a big issue because their yard stick is not the Bible but their personal opinions and the traditions they were brought up in.> I am not blowing up against anyone and I wont. Dear brother I have already said I am not against any ones opinion. Brother wearing of shoes is a western culture which we have adopted and I too am a part of that culture today. But dear brother just make a note, the westerners who wear shoes in churches dont wear the shoes which they wear outside, inside thier house, they have sandals meant which has to be worn inside, while they and we make it sure it is kept outside the rooms in a rack or in a corner.

<<The Bible should be the baseline for all matters and that can never change. But what can change are traditions and practices of men.>>

Is it so ? there are several practices mentioned in the scriptures, we followed it a time ago , do we know ? Now we question the basics of a born again and baptized christian life, now a lot of querries among born beleivers have risen up if immersion baptism is right or wrong. When there are several commands and instruction from the scriptures but we try to bend it to our own tune. If we try to be humble and respect our fellow brethren nothing is wrong, if it is a practice or not.

When we have a reverence , we wont mind in removing shoes, considering it to be our own house, more over it is the house of God where ever wwe gather, irrespective of thatched building or an airconditioned building.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2007 8:39:15 PM Close

Dear readers,
“Kumbanadan” wrote; “Whatever be the theology & arguments, we don’t allow foot wear in our assembly, even if it is a foreigner in 3 piece suit.”
I am actually saddened by that comment because it reverberated the underlying attitude of some of us. I don’t know how much the brother / sister thought through while writing it. What it said is this. ‘WE DON’T ALLOW’ – Should I understand it as; we really don’t care what the scripture says about any such things; if we don’t like that WE WILL NOT ALLOW? Does this mean that person would be denied fellowship because he/ she wore shoes? See where legalism is taking us?
The other day I shared the following with a friend regarding the way the Lord deals with us. ‘Our Lord Jesus Christ showed a tremendous example at the time He instituted the Lord’s Supper. Just before it, the disciples were arguing who would be the leader among them. Also, just after the Lord’s Supper Peter went ahead and denied the Lord three times. In between these two, the Lord established the Lord’s Supper. The Lord knew what was in their mind and also what Peter would do right after eating the Lord’s Supper. But Jesus Christ was so gracious to all the disciples and did not forbid them from taking part from the Table. In fact He said ‘with great desire’ He was longing for this time!

What would we have done? If we knew someone would deny us or bicker against what we would like to do, we would forbid that person from the love feast. We would preach a message how terrible they are! We need to look at Jesus Christ and see how He tenderly cared for His disciples. When we show the same attitude our assemblies are going to grow, people are going to be strengthened and blessed.’

Contd.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 2 Dec 2007 8:41:27 PM Close
Since writing on this subject I kept wondering what may have been the biblical reason for the removal of the sandals by Moses and Joshua; why did God ask them to do that. There are only two such incidents recorded in the Bible; both in the OT. Because of that, it has no bearing on the NT gathering. Last night a thought came to me which was different from what I mentioned before.

By carefully analyzing it we see the following. At both places, God was making special appearances – theophanies. In Both, God declared those places as holy because of His presence. God asked them to remove the sandals because the place they stood was holy. What they (Moses & Joshua) may have done? They removed the sandals from their feet and stood barefooted.

We cannot assume they just destroyed the sandals or threw out them to the ocean; they might have kept it nearby area for future use. So, it cannot just the presence of shoes that made the place unsuitable for God to be in. It has something to do with the wearers. We see immediate obedience on their part by the removal of the shoes; their obedience to God and reverence and a preparation to meet God.

There could be a more suitable practical application than a ritualistic observance of the removal of shoes. For the NT believers, simple removal of shoes would certainly not do any good. But a preparation of heart, removal of any sin in life, reconciliation with a fellow believer would be comparable to the removal of shoes or preparation to meet God. These things are supported by other scriptures also.

Leviticus 16 speaks of the OT ways of preparation to go in to the Holy place. We do not offer such sacrifices today or sprinkle blood. But the spiritual message of the required cleansing still goes on. In the same way, removal of shoes could be our need for daily cleansing and a preparation for meeting God with a worshipful heart, especially coming together for the breaking of the bread. NT doesn’t require any such outward symbol to have a worshipful heart.

Tom J

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Reply by : observer   View Profile   Since : 3 Dec 2007 7:51:57 AM Close
Just wondering whether Christians in "kumbanadan's" assembly sit on chair during Sunday's and other days meetings? I think that was the practice in earlier days to sit on the floor.
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 4 Dec 2007 2:07:12 PM Close
Thank you bro. Tom, that was a very interesting, "out of the box" way of looking at the incident.
Makes one question, what is truly important when we come together to worship our Lord...our sincere & earnest hearts or other things.
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Reply by : beracah   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 2:46:22 AM Close

Showing reverence and having reverence –

All of the cultures of the world have their own peculiar ways to express respect, regard, reverence to God, parents, the elderly, teachers etc. Differences among them are apparent. It is unfair to judge for the differences in cultures and none of these cultures are inferior or superior to others. They developed into the present state through a process of refining, adaptation, rejection, abandoning etc over a long period of time and still undergo changes as time goes by.

In certain cultures, calling a teacher or a superior officer or an elderly person by their ‘first’ name is not disrespectful; in certain other cultures it is unthinkable. What I follow suits me best and it is not a rule for others and not a standard or yardstick to measure anybody else.

Those who believe that ‘barefoot’ is a mark of respect to God, let them appear before God barefooted; those who like to sit on the floor with or without mat for respecting God must be respected for their desire to respect God in that way and don’t chase them with chairs or benches.

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 9:04:47 AM Close
This discussion is an interesting one. Bro.Tom J has done a good analysis of why in some instances God required shoes off, in His presence.

In Exodus, I did not see any mention of Aaron having shoes or sandals while ministering in the tabernacle. Since God went into the minute details of the rest of his attire, I do not think God left out sandals, unintentionally. Possibly the high priest was bare footed in his ministry and thats how God intended it to be.

In the NT, of course we do not see any such requirement. But the spirit of reverence to God should be the same. Ideally, in God's presence, when one is doing a ministry or offering praise, one should be barefooted, out of reverence to God. But we know that God is more interested in the coverings of the heart than the coverings of the foot. God has more respect to one who is broken-hearted in His presence, more than one who is bare-footed.

Now here is my main point: When you want to pour out your heart before God in prayer or praise, IF IT HELPS YOUR SPIRIT, by all means, take off your sandals. But don't expect God to respect your offering just because you took off your shoes or sandals.

My personal experience is that, while inside the church, being barefooted is a annoying distraction, because the floors are cold and often dirty. It helps my spirit to have my shoes on and try to focus on the Lord. But at home, though I do wear sandals in doors, when I kneel before God, I cannot prostrate before God with sandals on. In fact I put them some distance away from where I kneel. This I feel is same for many believers.

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 9:24:04 AM Close
Con't from above:

The question can be posed as to why 'shoes'? Why not the turban or waist girdle? What is different about shoes so much so that God required them off on occasions? Let me offer one explanation:

1. Shoes/sandals physically represent man effort to keep himself clean from the dirt of the ground.

2. Shoes/sandals represent man's physical effort to elevate himself.

Before God, both of the above have a spiritual connotation that God is unhappy with: God hates man's self efforts to cleanse himself and God hates man's personal efforts to elevate himself. God has provided the spiritual way to do both through His Son.

Since God is a God of spiritual truths mirrored off off the physical realities, I would not be surprised with God's reaction to Moses and Joshua's wearing shoes in His presence, based on the rationale I listed above.

Which is why, no such requirement is seen in the NT, since we NT believers are already in Christ. In Christ, there is no need to have regulations that mirror spiritual truths, since He Himself is the Truth.

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 9:47:03 AM Close
Dear brethren,

I am uneasy about the inference that may be drawn in reading some of the posts in this discussion. Firstly, let me make it clear that in what I am writing I am not imputing any wrong or evil thoughts to any who have contributed.

In the first three Gospels (Mat.16:11, Mark 8:15, Luke 12:1) the Lord warns us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. In Luke 11:46, addressing the Pharisees, he rebukes them for imposing burdens upon others that are not in accord with God's word. If we even suggest that some form of specific rituallistic behaviour is required by God, that He has not asked for in His word, we are in danger of falling into the doctrine of the Pharisees. They went beyond the law and imposed their own ideas on the people.

There are only two sacraments in Christianity, baptism and the Lord's supper. If any seek to perform tasks in devotion to Christ, or as a mark of their reverence to God, I have no difficulty. That is their own exercise. What is vitally important to realise, however, is that when we enter any building that is set aside for Christian worship, we do not enter the presence of God! We are never away from God's presence. We actually bring God's presence with us. Under the law, His presence, as far as Israel was concerned was in the tabernacle and later the temple. No building or man-made erection fills that purpose today. God's dwelling is in His people. The Holy Spirit dwells in every born-again child of God and we never leave Him behind.

It is not correct to refer to any building today as "the house of God". If every Christian meeting room, every Christian church building, every Christian cathedral, in every country of the world were destroyed today, would God have no house? His dwelling dear brethren would be totally unaffected.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 6 Dec 2007 1:44:20 PM Close
Dear brethren,

If I may, I would like to offer a further thought on this subject since there is an important and fundamental principle involved. When any building that is used for Christian worship is not in use, there is no intrinsic holiness or sacred property attaching to it. It is a man-made edifice constructed of wood, brick or stone. When the saints of God are present, His presence is there, but not in the physical building in which they meet. He is there, in His Spirit, indwelling the believers who have assembled. We cannot say that He is not there when they leave the building because God is omnipresent, but there is no value or sanctity attaching to the structure apart from the fact that it is a provision of God in which His people may meet. In this regard we would desire and pray that God would bless its use.

May I enquire, dear brother Thomas, if you are clear about these things?

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 3:15:26 AM Close
Dear brethren in Christ,

I once again owe an apology if I have hurt any ones feelings. Please do forgive in the love of Jesus Christ.


Our God is a loving God, hence he is liberal and forgiving too, but we have to fear our God at times. Just for an example, two major relgions of the world after Christianity, Muslims and Hindus, just watch thier way of worshipping or thier ignorant devotion to thier beleifs .


Brethren when we gather together , is it true that God is in our midst irrespective of the place, is our God Holy, if God is Holy he expects us also to be holy internally and externally if we can. I wrote before when we go to any of our friends our relatives house without telling itself we remove our shoes or sandals as a mark of repect to the members of thier house and as a hygienic concern and it is a must in the place of India, where there is a mixture of cultures.

Let us not change our cultures and let us try not to induce new cultures in our midst which many a times might be uneasy to the gathering.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 6:54:25 AM Close
Dear Samuel VJ,

The difficulties arise when our culture takes precedence over the Word of God. A culture always has its roots in this world and its ideas. The Word of God has its origin in God. It is His word.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 8:05:15 AM Close
Dear Br.George in Christ,

Can we deny that each nationality has its own culture, can we apply the culture of todays America to todays India. Might be around 20 years from now the young generation of today those who are there might bring into western culture. India national dress of dhoti is the undergarment for the Arab nationals , and like so a three piece suit in Indias most of the places will be felt uneasy, all round the place of India, no one entertains the shoes which they wear outside to be worn inside until a permission is obtained from the incumbents of the house, when there is such a lot of restriction for wearing shoes inside homes , why we Brethren are so much particualar about a transition for these things.

There are many thing which american beleivers do in America or elese which is not practical in Indiado.Let each ones nations culture be there, let us not interfere , the word of God is the baseline and the holy spirit will guide accordingly, but every nation has thier own culture too.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 8:50:12 AM Close
From what I understand, when something is not prohibited in the bible, it sounds like the practices of another culture gives less reverance to God when it is different from the practices of our culture.

>>why we Brethren are so much particualar about a transition for these things.<<

It is not that anyone is particular about a transition. It is the question of viewing such practices as less reverential or sinful at worst.

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 9:33:23 AM Close
Samuel, my brother in Christ,

Let me hasten to assure you that you have not hurt my feelings at all. My only concern is that we must all be clear that the physical meeting place of Christians, no matter what their denomination, race, or even culture, is not God's house.

Christianity is spiritual and its manifestation is in men and women who, having been born again are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God. The moment we attach any spiritual significance to material objects or structures we revert back to a legal system that ended at the cross. We see that full-blown today in the church of Rome. God's dwelling place in this world today, through infinite grace, is in His people. We may require meeting places for convenience and comfort; God requires no such buildings (Acts 7:48, 17:24). When Christ was here in His earthly sojourn, He was God's dwelling place (Mark 14:58). The Jewish temple had been superseeded by the perfection of holiness that was the Person of Christ.

I would have no difficulty with anyone who felt the need to remove their shoes in any situation as long as they did not suggest that there was any spiritual significance in the act or that it in some way merited the favour or blessing of the Almighty.

Your brother in Christ,

John


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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 9:36:53 AM Close
Dear brother Thomas Kuruvila,

May I enquire if you are clear in your mind about this matter now?

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : kumbanadan   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 10:33:20 AM Close
When it comes to culture & out of scripture matters, why is that western materialistic culture is conveniently thought as superior to Indian culture, and try to impose on brethren as better practices? Is it not westernising christianity? That is why majority of hindus see chrsitianity & Jesus as something of white man's.
Let believers in the local assembly decide how to run the assembly in matters like this. No one wearing foot wear will be allowed in our assembly & that is the rule.
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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 11:28:08 AM Close
Dear Br. John Miller in Christ,

Brother you are a very dear brother in Christ to me though we are differnt parts of the world, share differnt types of natures and cultures we are one in Christ.

Out of context let me ask you one question, what would be the reactions of the saints in scotland when everyone I suppose wear a three piece suit , a person from India or from kerala wears a piece of white cloth and a shirt and joins the worship there. Often there will be a ill feeling, but usually those from India when visiting those places try to adopt the cultures over there but it is the opposite when anyone from the place of England or any European countries come over to India they still remain in thier way of dressing and culture. Indians are used to eat thier food with thiers palms and fingers and over there with spoon and fork. So there is a cultural difference in differnt parts of the world, and in this part of the world , wearing shoe which is used outside inside is considered unhealthy and discourteous, when it is discourteous in a home where mortal human biengs stay, why cant we do the same when we gather together to worship the living God, who is omnipotent and omnipresent.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 12:15:07 PM Close
I used to attend a church where more than 500 families gathered for worship. They had a 'Shoe/Chappal-stand'. It was so hard to hand over chappals, take token, sit for worship and then later collect shoe/chappals and go home. In conventions it was just impossible to attend the meetings by handing over shoe/chappal in the shoe/Chappal stand'. But that was the rule there. Later I moved from that country and attended Church in a different country, where few of them wore shoe and few of them did not wear shoe during worship. I felt bad in the initial stages of attending the Church with shoe on, but then gradually, I felt that it is mostly the psychological feelings and the cultures that mattered most in following this condition. Now, I feel God is in us, and the physical structures do not matter when we worship God. Now as I write I worship God and yet have my shoe on. I do not think, I am irreverent to my God.
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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 12:42:59 PM Close
Dear Samuel,

That is the point some are trying to point out - it is a cultural issue and not one that the Bible has talked about.

Therefore to say that some people do not have reverence for God because they wear shoes in a meeting or because some wear different types of clothing is just another opinion and contrary to Gods word where these things are NOT AT ALL addressed.

>>wearing shoe which is used outside inside is considered unhealthy and discourteous, when it is discourteous in a home where mortal human biengs stay, why cant we do the same when we gather together to worship the living God, who is omnipotent and omnipresent.<<

You are comparing worldly rituals to spiritual matters. They that worship God worship Him in spirit. We are not dependant on the flesh for worship but on the Spirit. We should understand that some people do not see things the way we do.

See what the pharasees complained about the diciples not washing their hands or plucking corn.

Dear Kumbanadan,

>>why is that western materialistic culture is conveniently thought as superior to Indian culture, and try to impose on brethren as better practices?>>

No one is saying this here. Only you have pointed this out so I think you are having wrong idea about the discussion. The discussion is not about who is superior but about whether anything is wrong about wearing shoes in a meeting (provided the elders who make decisions have allowed it. Going against the elders is not correct). For that matter, the discussion is whether one has less reverance or is doing something wrong in the sight of God because they wear shoe in meeting.

Atleast it is a good sign that we are accepting that it is a cultural matter and not one addressed by the scripture.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 1:10:11 PM Close
Dear Kumbanadan,

You say “No one wearing foot wear will be allowed in our assembly & that is the rule.”

So……… this is a rule you want to establish based on something other than the Bible!

Your statement is very unbiblical, arrogant, prideful and damaging.

This is what the Pharisees did in Jesus Christ’s time.

Jesus Christ condemned them for their attitude.


Tom J


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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 4:21:54 PM Close
Dear brethren,

Firstly, allow me to acknowledge brother Samuel's declaration of brotherly love. I appreciate that greatly. Then let me say that in this country many persons from middle-eastern and asian countries do in fact wear their cultural and national dress on a daily basis and little notice is taken of that. I, for one, would not attach importance to the style of anyone's dress unless a lack of modesty was evident.

To Kumbanadan I have to say that I am saddened to think that I have given him the impression that I represent a western materialistic culture. If you read my posts, dear brother, I am striving to emphasise the very opposite. In insisting that worshippers remove their shoes, you are subscribing to a system that demands outward observance of non-biblical ritual. I am not racist in any way. I respect the genuine work of God in men and women of every race and nationality. The issue of the colour of another man's skin does not come into my judgement. I can truthfully say this in the knowledge that God knows my heart. The last short paragraph in your post would seem to suggest that man-made customs and traditions should take precedence over God's word and I would earnestly appeal to you to think carefully about this.

Our friend "aspoilkj" has discovered that to remove his shoes or to continue wearing them makes no difference to his communion with God. In the course of my work, two or three hours each day during the week is spent driving a big truck (lorry). As I drive I enjoy speaking to God in prayer. Should I stop my truck and remove my shoes? Let us hold to the teaching of God's word and not impose the traditions of national culture on our fellow believers. Paul withstood Peter "to the face" in defence of such a principle.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 4:34:56 PM Close
Dear "believer.bible",

While I agree with the main thrust of your contribution to the discussion, if I may, I would take the liberty of disagreeing strongly with one remark. I cannot accept that the elders in an assembly have the right to decide whether or not their fellow-believers are reqired to wear shoes or not. To make a requirement that shoes should be removed is not scriptural. It matters not whether the assembly is situated in India, Scotland or Russia. We are governed by God's word and that is the standard for the universal church of God.

Dear brethren, please understand that I mean no disrespect for any, but the underlying principle that must govern us is obedience to, and observance of the word of God, rather than the respect of man.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 4:55:56 PM Close
Dear brethren,

As I thought further about this discussion my attention was drawn to John ch.4. The woman made certain claims based on the Samaritan traditions. Jesus told her bluntly that both her ideas of worship and even worship in Jerusalem, the divinely acredited centre of the service of God based on the Solomonic temple system of worship, would be invalid and indeed were now! The worship of God is entirely spiritual according to the Lord's own words, and physical rituals are superfluous. "This mountain" or "Jerusalem" had no particular significance in God's sight. The issue is whether a person who seeks to participate in the worship of God is born again and indwelt by His Spirit.

"Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks upon the heart".

Our friend "believer.bible" made a very telling remark about the Pharisees insisting on the washing of hands.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 7:04:26 PM Close
Dear brother John,

My conviction is that God has given authority to the Elders of an assembly to use their discretion to make wise decisions as they have a very big burden of tending to the flock and maintaining the sanctity of the assembly from deviation from God's word, wolves in sheep clothing etc. Many assemblies face trouble because Elders are not respected for the authority that God has given them and sadly this has led to many break ups and ill feelings and gossip.

They have to make many decisions for matters not directly addressed in the Bible and use biblical principles, new testament patterns for fulfilling this office (office of the Bishop).

I understand that certain things decided by the Elders which are not addressed directly in the Bible and which do not contradict the Bible may not seem acceptable to the saints who gather in assembly or others but my understanding from the Bible is that we have to respect them for their decision and God will judge them accordingly.

Eph 5:17 - 19

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Maybe we can discuss with them but I believe they have the last word. Hopefully it is the Holy Spirit that guides them for all decisions.

I am willing to change this understanding if someone can point out from the Bible I am wrong. Maybe in another thread we can discuss this.

Most Kerala brethren have had their forefathers make so much of sacrifice and in many instances, they have lived their lives worthy of the calling. Sadly many things have turned ritualistic these days and many practices are followed and enforced because they are followed (tradition) and not because there is any conviction from the Word of God or consideration for the Church.

cont..

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 7:17:58 PM Close
today we are living in a time where youth question many of these practices - why there is a fuss on certain practices? whether it is biblical or just man made? etc. We do not explain why we follow certain things or do not follow certain things. To give answers that have no bearing from the scriptures and prove that it is man made or tradition makes them keep a distance from the assembly. It is not surprising that we have low numbers these days. I have seen this and unfortunately we do not deal wisely with our youth assuming they are not intelligent or mature to understand these matters.

I may sound very forceful on these things though unintentional because I was once a youth like these and felt our assemblies do things for the sake of doing things and I kept a nominal
distance. By God's grace He made me realize that I should not be influenced by the practices of men but by what is declared in His Word.

Let us get back to the Bible for everything.

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 8 Dec 2007 10:51:04 AM Close
Dear brother "beliver.bible",

Your last exhortation is the key to every difficulty or disagreement.

Regarding your reference to Eph.5, verse 17, I believe, is conditional upon their adherence to the scriptures and rejection of any customs or teaching that exceeds the word or imposes the thoughts or ideas of man upon those who are in their charge. I believe that if any were to fall into this habit, that in itself would be one reason for younger Christians becoming discouraged. There may of course, be other reasons.

Your brother in Christ,

John

P.S. Could the webmasters please act swiftly in deleting the intrusive intervention.

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Reply by : thomaskuruvila   View Profile   Since : 8 Dec 2007 1:33:44 PM Close
Dear believer.bible,
The reference you quoted (Eph 5:17-19) is Ephesians 5:17-19?
Because in Ephesians 5:17-19 is a different scripture
Ephesians 5: 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.
18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19 Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,
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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 10:14:33 AM Close
Dear brother Thomas,

You are correct. The scripture referred to is 1 Tim. 5:17-19. The key to fully understanding verse 17 is to note the word "well".

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : thomaskuruvila   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 11:05:59 AM Close
Thank you dear brother John,
I was searching for those verses.
May I ask you a personal question,Are you born and brought up in U.K?
I am not suppose to ask this but to know you better. Does not matter where you are from but you are my brother in Christ, I know that.
Regards
Thomas K
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Reply by : kumbanadan   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 7:44:44 PM Close
Dear Tomj,
Your theology is to your conveninece.
You dont want to remove your shoes at a worship place because your feet will become dirty. But you wont wear the same shoes in your living room & allow others too to do so. (WILL YOU????) What a great reverance? When it comes to things of your in-convenience, you conveniently say - It is not in the scripture. Want things of both world!
Jesus said about such people - They look for prime places in the church & at feast, and for salutation in the street.
Their back bone is rigid and cannot bend before God.
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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 9:36:28 PM Close
Dear Kumbanadan,

You wrote; "You [tomj] dont want to remove your shoes at a worship place because your feet will become dirty."

Please tell me how you made that observation - based on which comment(s) I made?

Also referring to me you said; "They look for prime places in the church & at feast, and for salutation in the street."

Dear brother, I don't think you know me personally. But there are people who know me who read this forum regularly. Let them judge me based on their personal knowledge and let the other readers judge me based on my writings here. But I wonder how you could make such an observation regarding me? Why such harsh words?

You said you WILL NOT ALLOW anyone in your Assembly with shoes on (paraphrased not exact quotes).

I said it is unbiblical.

If you think it is a biblical mandate please teach me /us based on the word of God.

I wrote earlier regarding the two places in the OT where God asked for the removal of the shoes. Also I explained how those instances have no bearings on the NT worship. Bro John Miller explianed it further accurately and graciously in much details.

Dear brother, these outward expressions have no significance at all. I sincerely hope you would take time to study what it means to say 'worship in truth and spirit.' This particular subject is dealt elsewhere in this web-site. Please take time to study it and it will bless you tremendously. May God help you to do so.

Regards,

Tom J

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 1:12:46 AM Close
Dear Kumbanadan

Removing the shoe is for 2 reasons

1. For respect.
2. For Hygienic.

I do not see in any of the assemblies which I visited in Kerala, North India or in Middle eastern countries, whether it is in the Assembly Halls or in Houses, anybody wearing the sandals or shoes while on the meeting. This is not doing because of any legal requirement but I think for the above reasons, if anybody wearing it, it is up to them.

When we come to the Worship, it must be done in Truth and Spirit, definitely it is the attitude of the heart. The same time God demands certain other things as part of the worship.

Heb 13:15 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.
Heb 13:16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Php 4:16 For even in Thessalonica you sent aid once and again for my necessities.
Php 4:17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account.
Php 4:18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.

1. Sacrifice of praise to God that is the fruit of our lips.

2. To do good and to share for with such sacrifices God is well pleased (This may be the reasons we are taking offering at the time of worship)

3. Giving financial help for the Glory of the God is an acceptable sacrifice, a sweet-smelling aroma and well pleasing to God.

Contd……..

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 1:14:38 AM Close
When we come to the presence of the Lord we need to keep certain external regulation also as the word of God says.

1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

1. Men should not cover his head.
2. Women should cover his head.

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 3:58:54 AM Close
Dear brother Thomas,

I live in Scotland in a little village in the county of Fife, named Kettlebridge. It may seem rather odd but the village is in two parts which have grown together over the years. Half the village is called Kingskettle and when I was a child there was a field or two separating Kingskettle, where I was born, and Kettlebridge where I now reside. I have lived here all my life apart from a short period in my late teens when I worked away from home down in England.

You may have heard of the town of St Andrews, known as the "home of golf". It is fifteen miles away from my village.

There, you have a very abbreviated account of my life which commenced sixty-five and a half years ago. It is really completely unremarkable!

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 4:14:19 AM Close
Dear brother Samkutty,

I am not clear whether you are advocating removing footwear or not when the saints are gathered for worship. Could you please clarify what you advise. I for one would consider it rather unhygenic to remove my footwear in company and no one visiting our house is expected to remove footwear. I have never witnessed it being done in any assembly or church. On the other hand, if I was in a place of collective Christian worship where this custom was practised, rather than offend the brethren, I would probably follow suit.

If I am correct Mr Ghandi used to go about without sandals or shoes. Is this an Indian custom?

I must say to our brother Kumbanadan that his remarks to Tomj were unwarranted and sadly lacking in the spirit of grace. The conclusions that you came to were without foundation based on Tomj's contributions.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 6:37:21 AM Close
The discussion on this topic is becoming interesting day by day. As one having mingled with various cultures let me make few observations here. These are my observations and have nothing to do with the beliefs/rules some have in their circles.

The condition that one should remove shoe while worshiping or praying to God comes from religious traditions, and psychological feelings. My mom told me that my grand father was a Brahmin manthravadi, that caused me to have beliefs in few superstitions even after being born again. For example, If I see cat crossing my way I would not go that way; If I see dog coming in front of me when I leave home, I was sure that the purpose which I was going will not work in favor of me. If I see some one carrying an empty pot or empty bag when I leave, I would think that I will not get any fruitful results on my way. There are few things that get into our sub-conscious mind. They have great influence in our day-to-day life. When I drive even though I am thinking about something seriously, my feet move on to brakes immediately the red signal comes on my way.

Hidus and Moslems follow this condition of removing the shoe before worshiping God, or praying to God. In the Olden days, many sat on mats, (Moslems do not sit on chairs or benches while doing Namaz).

In the Old Testament we see High priest removed shoe while entering Most holy place. I need to read more whether pre-carnate Christ when appeared to Abraham, whether or not Abraham removed his shoe. Daniel was in fire-place when pre-carnate Christ was with him; no doubt Daniel was without shoe on. But, in the New Testament, when Jesus was crucified, the veil in the temple got torn from top to bottom. Does not that indicate that Old Testament rituals are done away with? I did not find any Scripture in New Testament imposing a condition to remove the shoe while worshiping God.

Having written all this, I worship and pray to God with my shoe on when I am driving but immediately I park my car, I remove my shoe and pray to God.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 6:47:16 AM Close
Dear Brother John Miller

I repeat what I wrote:

“Dear Kumbanadan

Removing the shoe is for 2 reasons

1. For respect.
2. For Hygienic.

I do not see in any of the assemblies which I visited in Kerala, North India or in Middle eastern countries, whether it is in the Assembly Halls or in Houses, anybody wearing the sandals or shoes while on the meeting. This is not doing because of any legal requirement but I think for the above reasons, if anybody wearing it, it is up to them.”

Removing shoe or sandals is not a biblical requirement, I see believers are doing it because of Respect and Hygienic, wherever I was visited. If any other places and cultures they are gathering for worship or any other meeting using sandals and shoe that it up to them to keep it. I am not advocating anything here but gave an explanation to Kumbanadan.

I suggested one thing that Worship the God in Truth and Spirit, it is the attitude of the heart, at the same time Word of God demands certain external obligation also as part of worship, as I stated in my earlier post.

Hope this will clarity your doubt.

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Reply by : ageorge1   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 6:48:46 AM Close

Dear Brethren,

Interestingly gone through the various opinions about shoe off and shoe on while worshipping the Lord.

In India, in our worship, we prefer to shoe off by each members young as well as old and we really like it very much and we are not going to find out scriptural back up rather our conscious do tell us do so.

This is just personal and there should not be any rule accompanied to do so. So, there should not be any rule to over-rule when things are small and tiny.

It is again upto the brethren to decide up on their own.

Not only that we used to sit down when we are praising and also when we are praying to the God.

This practices really give us more comfort than the later which have been discused by various brothers above.

With Christian Regards,

A.George

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Reply by : kumbanadan   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 8:39:16 AM Close
Dear TomJ
I dont agree with your statement that outward expression has no significance. It is the attitude which refelects in outward expressions.
Worshipping in 'Truth & Spirit' is not something within the heart only, it reflectsin actions too!
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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 11:47:53 AM Close
Many have discussed reasons towards wearing and not wearing shoes at the place of worship.

The Old and New has its differences. Israel who were for 430 years – approximately 10 generations - in Egypt had to be taught the holiness and fear of God. Therefore, when they were called apart from Egypt, in every aspect of their lives we see our Lord being patient in giving out the guidance and guidelines - in their relation to Him, to others and towards society. A separation from pagan way of life to the way of the holy God. We see that he has given them direction on dietary laws and rituals in the reality of living His way. An illustration of separation from sin from the heart. This call for separation is not at all eliminated, but even repeated with the new covenant. But the approachability to the holy God has changed from the old in the new.

He said 'Ye be holy for I am holy' (lev 11.44). The Lord is Holy and everyone who approaches Him must be so to have a relationship with Him and observe that holiness. In the Old not all were allowed to come directly to Him to the mountain or to the tabernacle. There had to be mediator. And he (the priest) himself had to be declared (by making offering for his sins) holy before he approached God. The New mediator (Jesus) has changed this requirement once and for all.

This demand for Holiness in our approaching Him is met in Christ Jesus. That is why we can have the Sprit living in us today. When God through his Son looks upon us, we are holy – and Jesus presents each one of His holy and righteous and perfect before the Father through Him. That is our imputed righteousness and holiness along with all else that we have through the Son.

Continued -
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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 11:49:00 AM Close
May be we can draw that picture from these verse from Hebrews chapter 12 listed below.

<<<< 18You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.> >>>
Dose that mean that we can be disrespectful towards the Lord and in His presence at any time? "May it never be".

With regard to regional customs –

In the East it is considered a way of respect to leave the shoes behind. Shoes/Sandals were a an article one have others touched (expect servants or in servitude). One used sandals not only for comfort of walk but also not to be defiled by that which was defiled around them. So the custom to leave them "outside".

Continued -
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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 11:50:08 AM Close
In the West a visitor entering the house of a Westerner usually do not take the shoes off as a sign of respect and formality. If shoes were to be removed, usually it is done after asking permission to the host. Otherwise it would be appreciated by the host only if the visitor is a very close friend. Even then at sometime in the past he/ she may have asked for permission to have such casual approach. In the West wearing the shoe is something you do in a formal setting. With such cultural values before us, which we cannot resolve for a global audience, we need to decide what is practical, if not in conflict with the commandments of God.

In the East in the old days people used to sit on the floor matt of some kind when they came together. Having your shoe and sandal touching others while you sit side by side or even the sight of muddy footwear is not a welcome sight. Most people walked in those days in muddy or dirty roads … in many places even today they do so. In such circumstances, having such footwear removed is a good thing. Does that add to our holiness any more than what we are made already in Christ? Well, I hope we know the answer.

In the same way, in the West people sit on benches or chairs when they gather together. They come traveling on vehicles and the surrounding is kept clean where they walk. It should specifically be noted that during winter people who have overshoe to protect their shoe from snow is normally removed before they enter the formal areas. Not out of fear of un-holiness but of ruining the carpet or other floors from dirt and water.

Continued -
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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 11:50:57 AM Close
Now towards the attitude. We are to conduct holy at all times. There are no exceptions. Our life is to be a holy sacrifice (Rom 12:1). There are no specific times that we are to be specially holy. It is to be always. When is it that we do not have the Spirit of God in us? How can we be then less reverent to God at times and more at others?

We should take special note of the repetition of the call for holiness after the new covenant is established. What does that mean? We see we are made holy and perfect, and yet we are called towards a life of holiness. A multitude of verses can be give in support of it. It should include then an effort to come to a life of holiness that will emulate what we are in the heaven today in Christ, on this earth, as His children.

Your opinion may differ and I respect that, but without going through deep research, this is what comes to my mind.

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Reply by : spectator   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 12:10:09 PM Close
Correction for my second posting above.

“Shoes/Sandals were a an article one have others touched (expect servants or in servitude).” –

should be read as:

Shoes/Sandals were NOT an article one have others touched (expect by servants or in servitude).

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 12:19:48 PM Close
Spectator's views are of great comfort and apt. Our attitude of reverence to God is not in removing or wearing shoe. The attitude of reverence remains even when the shoe are on the feet. Quite right as he said, in the New Testament there is no requirement presented of removing the shoe while worshiping God.
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Reply by : thomaskuruvila   View Profile   Since : 28 Dec 2007 5:45:00 AM Close
Dear brethren,
I take this time to thank the entire participant who participated in this forum. It was really good to here from you all, your personal opinion as well as the spiritual thoughts.
Let me add one word, it was very useful to me.
I wish you all a very pleasant and happy new year.
May our Lord give us more joy and happiness in our life in the forth-coming year, 2008, and until the time we see our lord face to face.

May God bless you all
Regards
Thomas K.

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Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 28 Dec 2007 7:46:22 AM Close
I have realized that most of these legalistic practices are due to the failure of God's people in RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth. In Andhra, we have still a lot of people who remove the shoes, and think that it is a great sin or disrespect to God not to remove shoes before entering the meeting places. While it is good to keep in mind about the week brethen, it is NOT GOOD to keep them in ignorance.

1. Moses was on a HOLY GROUND (Ex 3:5) when God spoke to him. NOW, there is NO holy ground anywhere. This is a TRUTH, and the members of the body of Christ must be taught about this. There "WERE" things like "holy water" (Num 5:17), "holy oil" (Ps 89:20), "holy sabbath" (Ex 16:23). BUT NOW, there are no such things.

2. We ARE the temple of God (1 Cor 3:16) 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 365 days an year, and are therefore HOLY (see verse 17). The FLOOR of the meeting hall is NOT HOLY brethren, its WE who are "HOLY", being the temple of God. We should thank God for this great position we have, by the grace of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ Jesus,
Moses LemuelRaj

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