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# 01466 :  1 Cor. 3: 16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God
1 Cor. 3: 16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (KJV)
Dear brothers, in these verses we see that we are the temple of God because the Holly Spirit dwell in us. So we must live a holly life according to His will. And we should not defile our body, which means should not damage or destroy it at any aspect. What are these aspects? Don’t you think these given below subjects will include in it?
1. Smoking the cigarette
2. Drinking ( Vine ,beer or any alcohol)
3. Sexual activity other than with our spouse
4. Fighting ( Damage some one’s or our self’s
body)
5. Eating over food (more than the food our body
require)
6. Not taking the proper treatment while we are
sick
7. Sleeping more than enough (laziness)
8. Tempering some one’s or our mind (Angry)
Post by : thomaskuruvila  View Profile    since : 2 Dec 2007


Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 3 Dec 2007 3:52:17 PM Close
I have a doubt regarding this matter with two points

<<1. Smoking the cigarette>>

In some european countries I know, believers do not consider moderate smoking a sin as it is part of their culture and up bringing. There are elders who smoke also and do not think like we do.

Since what they do does not prick their heart, affect their testimony or cause a brother in THEIR assembly to stumble, can we then say they are not defiling the temple of God and sinning?

I understand that in India this is a totally different matter and can cause a weaker brother to stumble or give a bad name to our Lord and therefore should not be done. But I am curious about this scenario in other cultures and places of the world since the Bible does not directly address this issue.

<<2. Drinking ( Vine ,beer or any alcohol)>>

It is common for some believers (and elders) in western and european countries to drink a little wine (not being drunk) as this is part of the culture they are brought up in and this is not an issue with them that they ponder like we do. I do not believe that drinking wine in a controlled manner is sinful as our Lord approved of it in the marriage at Cana and also because the Lord drank Wine as we can understand from the following verses

Luke 7:33-34

vs 33 - For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

vs 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

So I believe drinking in moderate amounts is not a sin. I also believe that drinking and causing a brother to stumble or creating a bad testimony for our Lord is a sin.

As we are living in a world were most of us meet believers from different cultures and where our youth are travelling around the world due to their jobs, these are questions they bring up to me.

Would like to hear what the saints here think of these things

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 3:37:29 PM Close
“Smoking is injuries for heath”.
“Alcohol consumption is injuries for heath”.
You might have red this type of caution in many countries. Is this caution given by God? No, it is given by man, and why? Because human being knows that these things will destroy their body. Yet day by day it influences more and more people, why? The answer is very simple;
Rom 7: 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. .
It was the same cause with Adam the first man. God told him “do not” and he had the tendency to break the law. It is the nature of human being, because we are the generations of Adam. If we ask our kids, kids do not do that, and they will have the tendency to do that, where it is came from? Did some body teach them? No, it is a born nature.
You see, our Lord is a loving Lord, He never push any one to do his will, and it is absolutely depend upon us. He never pushed Adam to do his will. Our God does not want us to be robots.
Dear brothers, Even 1000s of elders and believers smoke but I don’t smoke. You know why? Because our Lord never said to follow the elders or believers but He asks us to follow Him.
Mathew 11: Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.".
Even the apostles told us follow Jesus not believers and they followed Him.
Hebrews 12: Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Cont..
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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 3:41:02 PM Close
Dear brothers, let us be listeners and give the chair person stand for the Holly Spirit in our heart so that He can guide us in the right track of our Christian life.
John 16: 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Dear brothers, Remember one thing,
“Isaiah 55: 8For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
It is not easy to understand God’ thoughts but definitely we can by the help of Holly Spirit who is living in us.
Colossians 1: 9 ……………………….. and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding. 10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Romans 12: 2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will..
So, let us not destroy the temple God by doing the worldly things .

May God bless you all
With love
Santhosh V.B

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 4:11:22 PM Close
Sorry for the spelling error.
With love
Santhosh V.B
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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 5 Dec 2007 9:36:24 PM Close
Santhosh, nice long reply but unfortuntely you had nothing to say about the references I pointed out. I pointed out two instances which are relavent to the topic where as you have been beating around the bush with emotional thoughts. What do you have to say to the Bible references I have pointed out that are relavent to the topic?

quote

Dear brothers, Even 1000s of elders and believers smoke but I don’t smoke. You know why? Because our Lord never said to follow the elders or believers but He asks us to follow Him.

end quote


Do you shave? wear shoes and socks? go in a car? or aero plane? brush teeth? sleep on cotton bed? Are you asking God's will or following the Lord in these things? You see, in many things, God has given us the freedom to do things with discretion.

I am not asking whether you should follow the elders in this example or not. I am asking with relavence to the topic (1. Smoking the cigarette
2. Drinking ( Vine ,beer or any alcohol)) whether
based on cultural contexts where smoking and drinking in moderate amounts is not an issue, we can say that it is a sin to the charge of these believers.

I find this important because we tend to with one stroke people doing such things as people who do not fear God.

Since you have said that doing anything injurious to health is sinful, maybe believers who are overweight, diabetic and heart patients are also sinning as they have not taken into account what they eat and drink for their body which is the temple of God.

Is it just that we label such things as forbidden and sinful when it is for our convenience only?

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 6 Dec 2007 3:43:53 PM Close
Dear believer .bible,
You have already stated that Bible does not directly address this issue and it is true. And I had given an indirect thought which may help you to understand, and I thought you want to get some spiritual knowledge as you have stated these words << But I am curious about this scenario in other cultures and places of the world since the Bible does not directly address this issue.>> << Would like to hear what the saints here think of these things>>
But it seems to be that you are here for arguments and you have some supportive words. I am not here in this forum for arguments but to share the spiritual thoughts. Since it seems to be an argument I have nothing to say. Because, if I quote 10 verses from bible then you will have 100 against me.

What you have stated is correct; there are many believers who smoke and drink in European countries. It is not only western countries but also India as well.

But I have met many believers from U.K, Netherland, Spain, Norway, France, Germany, Africa, Egypt and USA who does not drink or smoke. And they strongly believe that these are not design for the children of God. I believe that it is not the culture of the country that we have to follow but the culture of spiritual.

I did not mention a word of sin or sinful, I have mention Rom 7: 7, 8 to understand the nature of human being. I believe my thought was connected to 1 Cor. 3: 16 and 17, defile the temple of God.
Cont.

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 6 Dec 2007 3:49:23 PM Close
All I wanted to say is that you have freedom to chose, since God has given you this freedom then who am I to stop it? So if the Lord allows you to drink and smoke go ahead and enjoy doing it.
What ever you do in your life is subjected to the will of God, I dare to say each and everything. And to understand the will of God in your personal life, you have to read the bible and listen to the Holly Spirit what He wants to speaks out of that verses. For each and every thing in your life won’t get exact verses from the Bible but you will get the meanings to point in that direction. Any body in this world can understand the exact verses from the Bible by reading it but the right direction of the meaning can get only through the help of Holly Spirit.

Please read Ephesians 5: 15-21. But again it is not for arguments, if you want to get something.

Finally, I am not here in this world to judge my brothers and sisters but to guide them in their spiritual life as much as I can.

No more comments.

May God bless you
Your brother in Christ with love
Santhosh V.B

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Reply by : samuel.v.j   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 2:57:56 AM Close
Dear Brethren in Christ,

I have been reading all of your comments, often all of our dear brethren have an idea about me as a rigid pharisee. I dont mind it in the love of our Savior Jesus Christ.


Nowadays we have started everything to legalise, it is good that God has given us enough wisdom to be literate to understand the word of God in our own way. Why did our Savior die for us as a sacrifice ? For our sins, what is a sin ? if a person is guilty of what he or she is doing, which he/she feels is against the will of God , it is called a sin, now for those who say works of flesh is not a sin, it cannot be helped. Why do someone smoke,he or she doesnt smoke just to throw the smoke out for a show off, he or she gets intoxicated , the world and the cigerrete manufacturers are aware about the sin they are doing as they place a satutory warning in all the packets, many of the governments dont allow smoking in a public places and offices , because it causes harm to the own body and those who are in thier surroundings , yet born again beleivers and elders smoke and drink as per some of the brethren wrote in a post above, it is not guilty.

Beleivers in India, specially in Kerala , I dont know in another part of the world, and will be better if the influences not be brought into, Born again by the guidance of Holy Spirit, accepting Lord as a his or her personal savior is a complete transformation in a persons soul and mind, he or she abstains all what was against the will of God which he used to do before, No human hand is behind personal conviction, sure the word of God reaches him by various means.Love of the flesh, love of the mind, love of the heart all are sin. If one doing all this and says it is no sin, I am in a doubt what type of transformation he or she had when he was born again.


Yours in Christ
Samuel.V.J

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 9:19:18 AM Close
Santosh, you may see it as an argueing but I see it as very important we address these issues as much of our youth from India are seeing it for themselves when they go abroad. That we turn a blind eye or do not give sound biblical instruction or use wisdom on these matters cause them to think that our assemblies have nothing to do with real life and day to day issues.

Smoking increases the risk of certain diseases even if moderately done. Smoking addicts will suffer from more acute health problems. But keep in mind that in certain places in Europe, smoking on rare occasions is part of the culture and even so amoung few born again believers. This is similar to light alcholic drinking (wine) by believers in America during weddings, get to gethers etc.

When it comes to the issue of consuming alcholic drinks, an instance were Christ also consumed it was shown. Therefore I believe that to put an out right ban on it justifying it with scriptures is incorrect and bound to fail when they find that scripture teaches no such thing. We loose credability when we forcefully resort to scripture when scripture teaches no such thing.

The better way to do it would be of sharing the harmful consequences of drinking alcoholic drinks in an disorderly manner, the negative effects on our testimony and Lords, negative effects to the weaker brother etc.

Unfortunately not many will address these issues in these terms but will simply say that either Bible forbids it (when there is proof that it doesn't) or that our fore fathers never did it or it is not the will of God (finding the will of God is a very different subject and not as easy as it sounds. I wonder if people who use this as the last option seek the will of God for day to day activities. The truth is that on many things, we do not and cannot seek the will of God completely. There is the revealed will of God through Bible and then some things we have to contemplate doing which we hope are Gods will. The latter is not as easy as it sounds and needs much prayer)

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 2:28:02 PM Close
Dear believer.bible,
May I ask you two questions with your permission?

Is the Holly Spirit alive? Is the Holly Spirit incomplete in you?

Sit back and relax………, do not be hurry. Please go through the discussion from the beginning till now once again, go through the bible references and pray as you mention.

And if you want more references and thoughts regarding how to understand the will of God in day to day life please let me know, but I will do it only with your permission because as I mention I am not interested in arguments since it is waste of time (unless we do it in proper manner). You can even contact me in personally by email.

Your brother in Christ with love
Santhosh

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Reply by : believer.bible   View Profile   Since : 7 Dec 2007 3:36:55 PM Close
Dear Santhosh,

I don't understand what you see as arguing in this thread. It does however look like you are evading the issue by giving ambigous answers when confronted with scriptures that go against the cultural tradition you believe in. Unfortunately this is the kind of response much of our youth detest.

Regarding your rhetorical questions, I assume that you know the answers to themselves . The first answer is in the affirmative. Can you please explain what do you mean by "Is the Holly Spirit incomplete in you?". What do you mean by Holy Spirit being complete or incomplete in a person?

By the way, for someone who speaks a lot about the Holy Spirit, I think you also need to read the references a bit more carefully because the spelling of Holy is not "Holly".

regards

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 8 Dec 2007 2:58:12 PM Close
Dear believer,bible,
Thanks for your correction, I gladly take it.

Your question: What do you mean by Holy Spirit being complete or incomplete in a person?

The question I was asked: Is the Holly Spirit alive? Is the Holly Spirit incomplete in you?

Your statement on 7 Dec 2007 09:19:18 : I wonder if people who use this as the last option seek the will of God for day to day activities. The truth is that on many things, we do not and cannot seek the will of God completely.

Your statement on 1 Dec 2007 19:32:53: (In connection with the subject Wearing the shoe) : We worship God in spirit not in the flesh.

Your statement on 7 Dec 2007 19:17:58 (In connection with the subject Wearing the shoe) : Let us get back to the Bible for everything.

Dear brother, if we can worship the Lord in Spirit why we can't live our life with the Spirit?

Galatians 5: 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Cont.

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 8 Dec 2007 3:23:56 PM Close
Ephesians 5: 15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 5: 16 "..........live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

Ephesians 5: 17 "Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is."

Each and every thing in our life we can, we have to, find the will of God.
The Holy Spirit is not dead or departed from this earth; He is alive in every heart who believes in Jesus Christ (he who believes with heart and confesses with mouth).
The Holy Spirit in not partial in believer but is complete.
The Holy Spirit can talk to us in every movement, if we are willing to listen to Him.
The Holy Spirit can talk to all believers around the glob at a time.
Cont..

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 8 Dec 2007 3:47:20 PM Close
As I understood, there are 3 reasons (may be more) why God has sent the Holy Spirit to this world.
1. To seal us #Ephesians 1: 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
2. To lead us # John 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
3. To witness for the Lord # Act 1: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Dear brethren, As long as He sealed us, let us witness for our Lord, let Him guide us by the Holy Spirit in our life.

May God bless you
Your brother in Christ with love
Santhosh

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