KeralaBrethren.net
New User? Register Today!
Registered Users, LOGIN
What we believe (Eng) What we believe (Mal) About Us Contact Us
Forums Home General Forum Youth Forum Sisters Forum Archives (2005-2007) Archives (2001-2004)
Listing of Brides Listing of Grooms
Assemblies in Kerala Evangelists in India Instituitions in India
Christian Albums Christian Songs
Audio Sermons Bible Wallpapers Brethren Links KB History (Eng) KB History (Mal)

K E R A L A  B R E T H R E N
General Forum (2005 - 2007)

Forums Home ::
This Message Forum is to discuss spiritual topics only. Please avoid personal or assembly matters.
Let us use this facility for our spiritual enrichment and for bringing glory to our Lord almighty.
Webmasters reserve the right to delete any topic or posting partly or completely from this forum.
View Topics ::

Go to bottom of the page

# 00599 :  Questions for "Brethren" Only
Greetings in Jesus!

The purpose in which I have started this thread is to learn more about our dear "Brethren" brothers in the Lord.

My interest in discussion is not to teach, nor to debate doctrine, but only to learn more about the "Brethren."

Firstly, in starting this discussion I am going simply and briefly state what I believe about Jesus.

And I would be interested to know if those of you who are "Brethren" agree with me as for what I believe about Jesus.

* I believe Jesus is the Son of God.

* I believe He is divine eternally.

* I believe He was born of a virgin.

* I believe He led a sinless life.

* I believe He died an atoning death.

* I believe He rose physically from the dead on the third day.

* I believe He ascended into heaven, and that He will come again in just the same way, as He was seen to go.


Would those of you who are "Brethren" agree with every thing above I said that I believe about Jesus?


Jake

Post by : jake  View Profile    since : 18 May 2005


Reply by : abelieverinchrist   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2005 9:09:36 AM Close
Hey Jake
Greetings in the name of Christ
What do you meen by he rose physically?
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : llcj   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2005 10:32:29 AM Close
Jake:
Everything you have said is true.

AbelieverinChrist:
Rose physically means simply that he rose bodily. There are some who say his resurrection was only a spiritual resurrection, that is, he didn't have a physical body. But scripture is abundantly clear that his resurrected body was physical, tangible--after all Thomas put his fingers in the nail prints.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2005 5:53:21 PM Close
Greetings in Jesus again from Dallas!

Thanks for your answers to my question, and please excuse my ignorance about the beliefs of the "Brethren."

Of course, the Bible tells us that we are to test things, and that's the reason for my questions and also that I may learn more about the "Brethren."

By the answers I received from you, I can see you are true brothers of the true faith.

By the way, if you know Jewish people, you would know that they are by nature a very curious people, and they tend to ask a lot of questions. And even I am only part Jewish, I am much like that too. LOL.

Now I have some further questions!

(1) Who do you say the Holy Spirit is?

(2) Do you see the Holy Spirit depicted in Scripture as being personal, as in being a person or do you see the Holy Spirit as being non-personal as in being life, or power, or an influence? Or do you see the Holy Spirit as being both?


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2005 6:23:55 PM Close
SMILE - JESUS LOVES YOU.

I THANK LORD FOR ALL OF YOU.

LOVE IN CHRIST,

SUNILA.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kkbabumon   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2005 9:19:22 PM Close
Sunila,

Good evening. Good to see you/read your post again.

How are you sure that Jesus loves me?

KKB

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 6:43:10 AM Close
I know because we all are sinners. Jesus came to the world for the sinners. He loves sinners. He died on the cross for the sinners. God gave His son Jesus for us (sinners), because He loved us very much to get us back from the sinful life, or from our disobedience.

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 9:10:32 AM Close
Dear Jake:

From what you have written, I realize that you are genuinely interested to know about the ‘Brethren’ beliefs. Let me qualify certain things about ‘Brethren’ beliefs, before I suggest some helpful resources.

‘Brethren’ movement, when it started in the 1800’s, placed great importance to the autonomous nature of each local Assembly of believers. So, there are no particular lists of ‘beliefs’ that can be qualified for sure, as ‘Brethren beliefs’. They placed importance to independent studies of the Scriptures. So, you would see variations in practices if you were to travel around and visit many Assemblies (churches).

God wants us to study His Words, not any beliefs of any particular groups. He will never hold us accountable for not studying the ‘Brethren’ beliefs or anybody else’s beliefs. Having said all these let me suggest some helpful reading materials.

William MacDonald’s ‘CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH’, by Walterick Publishers, Kansas City, gives a good study about the local churches. Most of what in that book, if not all, are practiced in a general sense by ‘Brethren’ Assemblies. It’s a small book, about 120 pages. (Elsewhere you had some questions about the ‘Holy Spirit’. Chapter 7 deals with it.)

One Indian (Kerala) brother in Huston, TX, Dr. Sunny Ezhumattoor, has written on this subject. The title is ‘Plymouth Brethren – History, Doctrines & Practices. You could visit his website ‘www.thekkel.com’ and get more information. He also has written on the subject of the Holy Spirit, where you can find answers to many of your questions as well.

Another source would be to visit ‘www.brethrenassembly.com’.

But please keep in mind; none of these could be substituted for committed personal Bible study with the help of proper study tools, bathed in earnest prayer, so that the Holy Spirit could lead you to what He has in store for you. His Words never fail – people and denominations could disillusion or discourage one’s earnest desire to serve the Lord wholeheartedly.

Regards,

Tom

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 5:26:12 PM Close

Hi, Tom.

Thank you for your post, I will get a copy of that book and check out those websites.

Please understand that I am not one seeking to find a perfect local church or assembly to be more generally assoicated with.

Moreover, if I were to find such a group there were perfect. It would cease to be no longer perfect after I came. Do you do what I am saying? (smiling)

The Body of Christ on the earth consists of imperfect people who are sinners saved by grace, and that's what I am. I am just a sinner saved by grace, that's all.

I feel to further share this with you.

Some years ago, I believe the Lord had drawn my attention a major defect in the contemporary Church.

In being that, well, how can I say it?

I will express it this way: I came to see that "The Church has so many items in her shop window that the Cross of Christ is no longer noticed." I hope you are understanding what I am trying to say.

That one perfect and all sufficent sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, has come to no longer to have it's proper place in our thinking as Christians.

For example, today here in America you can go into a Christian bookstore and find a book on almost any subject --- how to have a better marriage, how to raise godly children, how to understand your own personality, how to keep a better house. There is almost no limit!

Many of these books have merit, but none would be effective without the cross.

The cross is the only source of grace and power to make all the other good advice work.

It is time the Church out the cross back in the center of her shop window.

Please understand that when I refer to the cross, I am not referring to a piece of metal or wood that people hang around their necks or put on the wall of a church, although I have nothing against such things.

When I refer to the cross, I am talking about the sacrifice that Jesus made there on our behalf.

I will complete my thought in my next post!

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 6:04:46 PM Close

Continued to complete my thought from my last post ..... "Any way, I believe the Lord had shown me that the Cross of Christ had need to be restored to it proper place in the Church.

And one of the ways, that this may be done. I believe the Lord had shown me, was by restoring the Lord's Supper, the Lord's table of communion within the Church.

It has been my practice for some years now, to partake of the Lord's table (some call it taking of communion) in my morning prayer times daily. However, I don't say all should do as I do. And also to partake of the Lord's Supper with local congregations as often as they do.

Then later on and just recently, I learned from another brother in which I had been discussing this subject in being he had mentioned in just the "Brethren." And in how they have placed it in the center of the worship and fellowship, and I was quite impressed about that, and came to want to learn more about the "Brethren" for that reason. That's what led to my interest in the "Brethren" and also what lead me to this bulletion board to learn more about the "Brethren."

Of course, we aren't all gifted in just exactly the same ways by God, and we may not all have just exactly the same burdens given by the Lord.

But my interest is only in being where the Spirit may lead me, and for whatever reason, the Lord may have in such things, and in being placed where that it may would be more profitable of the kingdom of God in some way.

And for whatever reason the Lord may have, I have come to have a definite sense of knowing now that the Lord would have me to come close to the "Brethren," perhaps to help to further the work of the Lord they are doing in some ways.

Very soon (the Lord willing) I plan to begin to visit some of the local "Brethren" churches in the Dallas and surrounding area in which I live, and perhaps I will come to be shown more by the Lord, as I do so.

Perhaps this may help you to understand all the more about my sudden interest now in the "Brethren."

Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 6:11:13 PM Close

This is to correct a typo in one of my last posts above, and also intended to place emphasis:

"It is time the Church put the cross back in the center of her shop window."


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 8:53:00 PM Close
I have a good book for the readers of this net. It is 'GOING DEEPER WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT' by BENNY HINN. If you read this book, you will discover: the person of the holy spirit; work of the holy spirit; and how to cooperate with holy spirit.


To order: call: 1-800-433-1900 or go to www.bennyhinn.org

Thankyou,

sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2005 10:20:33 PM Close
Hi Sunila.

I don't know if you had ever realized this or not, but "Benny Hinn" is considered to be one of the most notorious con artist in Christian ministry in America.

This is what your looking for:

www.letusreason.org

Once you are there at the home page, begin scrolling down the page looking to the left of the home page as you do, and when you see the listings in the box "Popular Teachers" click on the tap, and you will see a number of articles by apologists for the Christian faith, who have exposed Benny Hinn's lies, deception and con artistry.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : Varghese   View Profile   Since : 20 May 2005 10:57:20 AM Close
I am glad that Jake mentioned about the notoriety of Benny Hinn. There have been threads here before on the Benny Hinn Ministries and its deceits. Some have previously tried to vehemently defend the BH ministries but to no avail. A point to remember: Before publicizing a ministry, please learn more about it from all angles.

I know I am off to a tangent and hence, let me conclude here.

God Bless!

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 12:12:13 AM Close
Varghese, I know what your saying.

While I DON"T WANT to turn this into a discussion "Benny Hinn," however. I will say this! I have nothing but bitter contempt for this man and for all who are like him that go around giving Jesus a bad rep!

I HATE the stuff that those kind of preachers today are doing! It discredits the gospel and our Christian faith.

As for Benny Hinn, no doubt he will ultimately end up, like what had happened to "Jim Baker" if not something worst.

There is something that I have observed about the Devil!

When he has finished using someone, he will throw them away like a USED LEMON.

He's a very hard task-master, and he shows no mercy to any one.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 12:25:32 AM Close

Greeking in Jesus!

You all seem hestiate to share your veiws about the Holy Spirit.

However, I will give my answer at least to the question. I had earlier asked you about the Holy Spirit.

In Scripture I finally came to see a unique fact about the Holy Spirit that had really stretched my powers of comprehenion. In being that I came to see that the Spirit is both "personal" and "non-personal"-- both a "He" and an "it" in Scripture.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 9:37:44 AM Close
Let me at the outset say that I do not know much about Benny Hinn. I saw him on TV doing some miracles; I do not know whether they are true or false.

But, let me ask few questions here.

1. Have the spiritual gifts like healing stopped? Some say with the canonization of the Bible all the spiritual gifts ceased. Actually, the John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So, the word of God was complete in all respects including Revelation at that time itself. I mentioned about Revelation, because some here stick on to Revelation and say, Prophecy is complete with the writing of Revelation. Can some one justify about the cessation of the Spiritual gifts?

2. I read George P Koshy's exposition about falling back as a curse. It seemed to me ridiculous, because any one falling down mostly falls backwards. He quoted Judas to justify his stand. Judas fell head long. I did not read he fell backwards. Scientifically, any one falling down would fall backwards or toward one side. Can some one write more about this?

3. What is wrong with shaving off head at holy place, like Tirupathi or Sabarimala. If you need an Apostle did that, please read,

"And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow." Acts 18:18

4. You know, Hindus can worship at any temple, Muslims can worship at any Masjid, but Brethren will worship only at Brethren Assemblies, Pentecostals at Halls, Oh! God, how many denominations, Marthomites, Jacobites, Mormons, Jehova wintnesses, Catholics, Charismatics, and waht not? Why all these differences?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 10:18:40 AM Close
Hi, everybody,

Talk about Holy Spirit. I want to see different views.

Prayers,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 11:03:58 AM Close
Ashuthosh,

I will show you somebody who fell upon his face. Read 1 Samuel 17:46,47 and 49.

46.That all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.47. And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear; for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands. 49. And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it,and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

See how GOD work with his servants for His people. You see where he aims at. That is the fall of WHO? That is the fall of people who disobey GOD and turn believer's faiths and the word of GOD.

Prayers,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 12:52:47 PM Close
Jake,
I want to quote something that 'Jonathan cahn', a born again jewish priest wrote recently in his news letter.
THE ENEMY STRIKES YOUR HEAD.The strategy of the enemy is to make you forget who you are in Messiah. He hits you with abuse, negative words,constant criticisms and all that opposes the Word of God. Anything not to love, anything that draws you way from the love of God is false. You are not to focus on your problems, on your sins or failures. This will always make you sink. will lower you.Gods's love raises you up,out of the poverty and the bondage of the enemy's lies. So,look not at your situation, or what the enemy wants you to believe, but rise up and look to God, His Word, His truth and His love.Don't forget who you are in Messiah, who God says you are.
SHAKE OF THE DUST.You are created to shine, to rise up from the life of bondage. This is your wake-up call. You can be free today, and transformed by the renewing of your mind in God. Seek forgiveness, and forgive others.Shake the dust off, that thing that's made you forget God's love and His high calling for you. Stand on His Word. For you are a prince,a princess, one called, rise up, walk worthy and live in a manner wothy of the high calling. (1 Peter, you are called a "royal priesthood'.)
I think this is a message to you. Going to a brethren church is not wise to you. Because they follow tradition. Surely you get a human eye on you. You get language problems and cultural problems. There are congregations of born again, holy sprit filled jewish people speaking the same language you know.They have Lord's Supper also every week. I am telling this from my experience. When our church had no worship place in NY, we rented a Jewish church and we worshipped together for few years.
Love in Christ,
Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 2:56:44 PM Close
Sunila,

1 Samuel 17:46,47 and 49 is about Philistine, Goliath, falling face down -
Vs. 49b "he fell upon his face to the earth."
That was when God's servant David hit him with stone...Vs.49a"And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead;"

So, you are right then, falling backwards is not a curse, but falling forward is a curse. This teaching is just oppostite to Brethren belief. Brethren say, falling forward is blessing.

seconldy, is keeping Lord's Table in the center of the congregation right or not. I am thinking, it is just like idolatory. I may be wrong.

Thirdly, if the Lord's Table is set up at the end of service, those who do not want to partake in it, can conveniently walk out of it, rather than compulsorilty sit as in Brethren tradition. They call it Worship Service. Is it worship service or remeberance service? I am not saying Lord's table should not be set up at all. We need to certainly remember Lord's Jesus Christ's death, but do we have to do at the cost of worshipping God the Father and giving reverence to Holy Spirit?

Fourthly, what is wrong in worshipping Holy Spirit. Brethren consider it wrong to worhsip Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ did not say, "worship me". What He said was worship God with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." Mark 12:30

That is the reason why I wrote at some other place that I am fed up with Brethren service.

-------------------------------------------------

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 3:51:52 PM Close
Ashuthosh,
Praise the Lord. I wasn't talking about curse. I was talking about falling in the hands of God.

Keeping Lord's table at the center is right. Because it is the focus of our gathering, not who wear mini skirts and who is clapping hands. Lord's table is for people who are born-again and received water baptism. If you do not want to partake you don't have to come or you can go out for a moment because they are aware of God's presece and they don't want to submit themselves. They are stuburn. They still want to come back to church because Holy spirit is working on them. Somebody has to teach them how to cooperate with Holy spirit. For some people Lord's supper is a tradition. I know somebody who partake Lord's supper understand this.

We are not worshipping the Holy spirit. We are worshipping God in Holy spirit.

You know the difficulty of understanding the word of God. Studying that would not take you anywhere. You have to make it as a practice. Experience it. Submit yourself to God.

Prayerfully,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 7:38:08 PM Close
Sunila,

You are missing the context. I wrote about brethren belief that falling backwards is curse according to them.

"2. I read George P Koshy's exposition about falling back as a curse. It seemed to me ridiculous, because any one falling down mostly falls backwards. He quoted Judas to justify his stand. Judas fell head long. I did not read he fell backwards. Scientifically, any one falling down would fall backwards or toward one side. Can some one write more about this?"
21 May 2005 9:37:44 AM

You showed Goliath, philistine falling forward in I samuel7:49. That would obviously mean falling backwards is not a curse, but falling forwards is. How come you now say, you are writing about falling in to the hands of God? However, I can not agree with the belief that falling backwards is a curse.

Setting of Lord's Table in the center may not be wrong. I agree with that. It may be local arrangements. I also agree that whoever does not want to take part can keep quite. I donot want to argue on that.

What do you mean by, "We are not worshipping the Holy spirit. We are worshipping God in Holy spirit."

Can you or somebody explain that?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 8:08:14 PM Close
Ashuthosh,

I am not missing the context. Whoever wrote that brethren belief, wrote something that is not brethren. Many of my older relatives are among great song writers, convention preachers etc. in bretheren assembly. All these bretherns and pentacostals are singing the songs written by them. I never learned this kind of brethren beliefs from them.

I meant 'we are not worshipping the Holy spirit' that we are not giving praises to Holy Spirit. We are praising God in Holy Spirit. God is the only one worthy of our praises. That is what He wants from us.I know you don't understand this. Because you came to brethren by marriage and now you don't like them.

I will pray for your spiritual come back.

With prayer,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2005 8:55:49 PM Close
Sunila,

Thank you for promising to pray for me. Pray for not only spiritual come back, but every good thing in my life.

Now, Do you mean Holy Spirit is not God? or, Praising Holy Spirit is not equivalent to worshipping Holy Spirit?

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2005 3:16:11 AM Close

Greetings in Jesus!

Of course, it's normal for discussion to drift off topic a bit, however. Please let's not turn this into a discussion about "Benny Hinn" and about people falling down, falling forwards or backwards or whatever and as to what it means to for people to fall one way or the other and all that stuff.

If you want to discuss that kind of stuff, please take out a new folder and start a new thread or discussion if you will.

And please allow me to have dialogue with those who are "Brethren" here that I may learn more about the "Brethren." For that is the purpose in which I started this thread.

In this particular discussion I have interest only in having dialogue with those who are "Brethren." And if you are not "Brethren" I would be happy to discuss things with you on another thread, but not on this one.

Of course, I can't keep any one from hi-jacking this discussion, all I can do is to ask you to please not hi-jack this discussion, and because I know are dear people who love the Lord. I am quite sure that you will walk like you talk, and at least show me this much consideration.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2005 4:46:46 AM Close
Sunila wrote to me:

Going to a Brethren church is not wise for you. Because they follow tradition.

My Response:

Where did you get the idea that other churches do not?

Most do, Jewish churches do also. (smiling)

Sunila wrote:

Surely you get a human eye on you.

My Response:

I hope so, and you can be sure that I would have an eye on them too. (smiling)


Sunila wrote:

You get language problems and culture problems.

My Response:

What language problem? As for as I know the local Brethren churches here are English speaking congregations. No?

Moreover, why do you say culture problem?

What would that matter?


Sunila wrote:

There are congregations of born again, Spirit-filled Jewish people speaking the same language you know. They have the Lord's Supper every week.

My Response:

I have been attending Jewish churches for some years now, and I can tell you that few do this you said.

In fact, here is America, most Jewish Christians do not attend Jewish churches and do not live as Jews. However, most will some Jewish traditions, but aren't orthodox about living a Jewish lifestyle. Most live near just like non Jewish Christians do.

Moreover, theology varies in Jewish churches today, just as it does in more traditional non Jewish forms of Christianity.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2005 5:07:09 AM Close

Sunila, if Avinu (Avinu = Hebrew for "Our [Heaveny] Father") speaks to my heart, and tells me for whatever reason to come close to those of the "Brethren church" and to learn about them, and to have fellowship with them. In which I know He has spoken that to my heart, that is what I will do.

In fact, that is what I am engaging in dialogue on this bulletion board now, and is the reason I started this discussion.

Moreover, sectarianism is a sin that Jesus warning us about, and it's not of God, it of the Devil. Do you know what I am saying?

If you are so opposed to the "Brethren," I am just curious to know as to why you are here posting and engaging in discussions here.

Why are you here?


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2005 6:03:20 AM Close

Ashuthosh, as for your mention of the Holy Spirit, and worship, from what Sunila said it would seem he/she was saying the "Brethern" worship the Holy Spirit in context with the Godhead.

If that is what Sunila was saying, I also would agree with the "Brethren" about that. It that is their practice and what they believe.

In being you asked about that, I would like to further note this:

"One of main characteristic of the Holy Spirit is that He never attracts attention to Himself."

Here is a literal translation of some of the things that Jesus told us about Him:

"He will testify of Me ..." (John 15:26)

"He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He hears He will speak ..." (John 16:13)

"He will take of Mine and declare it to you." (John 16:14)

More remarkable still, in all revelation which the Holy Spirit has given in Scripture THERE IS NO RECORD THAT ANYONE EVER ADDRESSED A PRAYER TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The pattern of prayer that Jesus gave to His disciples commences with these words "Our Father."

To this Jesus added His own promise: "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." (John 14:13)

The terminus of all scriptural prayer is God the Father.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to help us to reach the Father with our prayers, not to offer us an alternate destination.

We are to pray IN the Spirit, not TO the Spirit. (see Ephesians 6:18)

I assume our dear "Brethren" would agree with this I shared.

I would hope so any way, for clearly this is what I see the Bible teaches.

By the way, this "Benny Hinn" stuff on his televised Christian ministry programs of "Good Morning Holy Spirit!" (praying to the Holy Spirit is NOT scriptural).

Just feel to add that is all! (smiling)

We are only to worship the Holy Spirit in context of the Godhead. And when we direct our worship to the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is actually receiving our worship also.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 6:09:35 AM Close
Jake,

You started three strings, 1. The Lord's Supper, 2. Questions for "Brethren" and 3. Questions for "Brethren" only. They are general in nature not in any way, "My questions about the Lord's Supper, 2. My questions for "Brethren" and 3. My questions for "Brethren" only.

So, my posting general questions pertaining to "Brethren" is not hijacking the topic/discussion. I had serous questions to "Brethren", and I needed clarification just as you wanted to your questions.

I agree with your belief...

"More remarkable still, in all revelation which the Holy Spirit has given in Scripture THERE IS NO RECORD THAT ANYONE EVER ADDRESSED A PRAYER TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The pattern of prayer that Jesus gave to His disciples commences with these words "Our Father."

To this Jesus added His own promise: "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." (John 14:13)

The terminus of all scriptural prayer is God the Father."

But, read what you wrote...

"We are to pray IN the Spirit, not TO the Spirit. (see Ephesians 6:18)"

Does Ephesians 5:18 say we should not pray TO the spirit?

Where there is no prohibition to do that what is wrong in doing that?


Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 5:22:57 PM Close
Ashuthosh, thank you for your post, and for your explanation.

Firstly, I want to say that it's not my business to be going around telling other brothers in the faith what to do.

Nor, do I want to do that. Nor, do I believe that Lord would want me to do that either.

However, when there are others who are willing to hear my veiws. I don't mind sharing things that I have learned from the Scriptures.

Nor, do I mind being asked questions about my beliefs either. I believe we are to do that.

As for prayer, I shared with you my beliefs in in which I have a scripture base for, that has lead me to the conclusion that we are NOT to direct our prayers to the Holy Spirit and our worship to the Holy Spirit.

We worship the Holy Spirit only in context of the Godhead, through the Father and the Son He receives our worship.

The Spirit will never lead us to do that other wise. The Holy Spirit is "Servant God." That is, if you are understanding what I mean by saying that.

Now I want you to listen to what I am now about to say carefully, because it is revolutionary, if you are able to grasp it. However, by what you said in your last post, I fear you may not be able to grasp it. Nonetheless, I am going to say it any way.

Any spirit that focuses on the Holy Spirit and glorifies the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT.

It is contrary to His whole nature and purpose.

Once you have grasped that, it will open your eyes to many things which are going on in the church at this time especially with those who are hyper Pentecostals and hyper Charismatics and their error, that otherwise may be difficult at this time for you to understand.

Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 8:05:37 PM Close
Jake,

If it is not your business "to be going around telling other brothers in the faith what to do", well then you are confined to certain area and do not want to grow, because if everybody thinks in the same way as you do, then there would not have been any teachers, nor would there be any learners. So I do not agree with your opinion.

You are combining prayers with worship. Prayer is different from worship. It is true that we pray to God the father through the only mediator Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit prompts, or helps us to say what we need to say.

But, you have gone to the extreme and said, "Any spirit that focuses on the Holy Spirit and glorifies the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT". That is very strange.

1. Can you explain that?

2.Which other spirit can focus on Holy Spirit? Can evil spirit acknowledge Holy Spirit?

I also emphasize on what you wrote earlier.

We are to pray IN the Spirit, not TO the Spirit. (see Ephesians 6:18)"

Ephesians 6:18 reads as follows:

"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"

1. What is that word Spirit mentioned in that verse?

2. Did Old Testament saints have that Spirit of praying? Which Spirit they had? Spirit or Holy Spirit, or evil Spirit?

If they had the Spirit, by which you mean Holy Spirit, that means Holy Spirit was not coming down as and when it was necessary, which is Christian faith, but the Holy Spirit was always there even in the days of Old Testament saints. Is that what you want to say? Holy Spirit indwells us when we are born again and is there with us permanently according to New Testament.

The Holy Spirit, the Comforter came down to dwell in us and with us until the Second coming of Jesus Christ. Or, do you want to say, Old Testament saints did not pray? or did not pray with spirit?

What do you understand by Spirit and Holy Spirit?

I would apppreciate your explanations.

Thank you, Jake (smiling).


Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 9:49:50 PM Close
Aushuthosh, I fear you have not understand nothing I had said. (smiling)

I am unable to make long posts to explain all you have asked about, however. I will make short posts, that may help you step-by-step to understand my posts better.

Firstly consider this:

In John 16:13-14 (NKJ) Jesus gives us a glimpse of the Holy Spirit's ministry and activity:

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority [ilterally: from Himself], but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you."

So we see: the Holy Spirit does not speak from Himself; He has no message of His own. Now isn't that remarkable? (smiling)

He only reports to us what He is hearing from the Father and the Son.

Secondly, His aim is not to glorify Himself, nor to attract attention to Himself, but always He glorifies and focuses attention on Jesus, and this the second way to identify the Holy Spirit,

Now do you understand? ... Why I said in an earlier post that: "Any apirit that focuses in the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT."

Why do I say that?

Because in Scripture we can see that would be contrary to His whole nature and purpose.

For example, there is a very beautiful chorus we sing about the Father, the Son and the Spirit.

The first verse says to the Father, "Glorify They name in all the earth."

The second verse says to Jesus the Son, "Glorify Thry name in all the earth."

The third verse says to the Spirit, "Glorify They name in all the earth."

I love to sing the first two verses, but I decline to sing the third verse, because I do not believe it is scriptural.

The Holy Spirit never does glorify His own name, His purpose is to glorify the One who sent Him.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jake   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 10:04:17 PM Close
Sorry for the typos, I meant to say "Any spirit that focuses on the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT."

It is another spirit, in other words, not the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is not going to lead us to do that.

The Holy Spirit will never lead us in some way that will not be found to be according to the Scriptures.

And that is how we test things to know what is of God and what isn't of God.

If it is of God, it will be found according to the Scriptures, and if it can't be found according to Scripture, it should not be acceptable as being of God.


Jake

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : ashuthosh   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2005 10:38:17 PM Close
Jake,

Your first statement was,

"Any spirit that focuses on the Holy Spirit and glorifies the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT."

Did you want to correct that? You wrote now,

"Sorry for the typos, I meant to say "Any spirit that focuses on the Holy Spirit IS NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT."

and then you went on to add,

"It is another spirit,"

How many spirits are there? and what are they? Before we think of anything, let us reason it out, how many sprits are there and what are they?

(Smiling)

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:48:49 AM Close
Dear Brother Jake

I am very glad to know from the Kerala Brethren net that, you are trying to study more about “Brethrens”. You can also look into the main page of this site “WE BELIEVE” which is mentioned as:

“All who by faith receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are born again of the Holy Spirit and Word of God, receive the Holy Spirit and a new nature, and also are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.”

I can tell you one-thing; Brethrens are following up “The Holy Bible” in totality. I will pray our Lord Jesus Christ to help you to understand more. In your message you asked Brethren Believers to answer your question regarding “The Holy Spirit”. The following topics are very much helpful to you and our dear brother Aushuthosh to understand more about “The Holy Sprit”.

Now for Dear Brother Aushuthosh

I request you to kindly go through this document in total; you will get all the answer which you have raised in this forum. Our Lord Jesus Christ will help you to understand more from these topics.

With Pray
Philip Puthusseriyathu

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:50:40 AM Close
CONTINUATION

The Holy Spirit

1. Understanding of God's Power
Who or what is the Holy Spirit? What part does the Holy Spirit occupy in the work of God? These are serious and deep questions. All of our searching would be useless if God had not encouraged us to find out as much as we can by means of the Bible, which is His authoritative Word. Let us discover what He has told us about His Spirit.

At the outset let us clarify whatever mystery or confusion may lie behind the word "Ghost" in the expression "Holy Ghost" in the King James (Authorized) version of the Bible. In Shakespeare's day "ghost" was a current word for "spirit" and a spiritual adviser was called a "ghostly confessor". Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are translations of the same original words. The strange notions which now attach to our word "ghost" are not what the translators intended to convey. Later translations uniformly render the words, "Holy Spirit".

Several expressions are to be found in the Bible which are descriptive of the Holy Spirit and these include:

"The Spirit of God" (Genesis 1:2; Matthew 3:16)
"The Spirit of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:2; Acts 8:39)
"Thy good spirit" (Nehemiah 9:20)
"The Spirit of the Lord God" (Isaiah 61:1)
"His Holy Spirit" (Isaiah 63:10-11)
"The Spirit of your Father" (Matthew 10:20)
"The Spirit" (John 1:32)
"The holy Spirit of God" (Ephesians 4:30)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:52:43 AM Close
CONTINUATION

The terms God the Holy Ghost, or God the Holy Spirit, are not to be found in the Bible. Nevertheless, there is clearly a very strong link between God and the Holy Spirit. (We shalt not deal here with the doctrine of the Godhead. A very useful treatment of that subject will be found in "Jesus Christ -God the Son or Son of God?") Indeed, the Spirit is said to be "of God", "of the Lord", "of the Lord God", and "of your Father", in the list of expressions given above. If we make this the starting point of our journey through Scripture we shall find that progress is not difficult.

Look at the following descriptions of creation:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (Genesis 1:1,2)

"The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." (Job 33:4)
"He hath made the earth by his power . . . established the world by his wisdom . . . stretched out the heavens by his discretion." (Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15)

CONTINUATION

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:54:04 AM Close
CONTINUATION

2. God's Power in Creation

These are but a few of the many evidences in the Bible about the work of God in creation. He alone by His wisdom conceived the wondrous plan, and it was executed by His Almighty power, His Spirit. God is Spirit (John 4:24, R.S.V.)1 and whatever He does is by His Spirit.

How is creation sustained in existence? Is it a huge clock, wound up by the Almighty and left gradually to run down? Or is the Lord God still involved and concerned with what He has made? The Bible in all its parts tells us that creation is upheld by God and He is everywhere present throughout and within all that He has made. Without Him nothing could exist or continue to exist:

"God that made the world ... giveth to all life, and breath, and all things ... in him we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:24-28)
"If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust." (Job 34:14-15)

"Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name. " (Amos 5:8)

God fills His creation. All of its activity is because of His wise and sustaining Spirit, the divine energy working out His gracious purpose. The Spirit is not a "separate" or "other" person. It is God's own radiant power, ever out-flowing from Him, by which His "everywhereness" is achieved. The Spirit is personal in that it is of God Himself: it is not personal in the sense of being some other person within the Godhead.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:55:45 AM Close
CONTINUATION

3. Writers Inspired by God's Spirit

The Scriptures teach us that God has a redemptive purpose for man and for the earth on which he lives. It will come as no surprise to learn that the revelation of that will has come about by God Himself through His Spirit:

"We have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it. No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:19-21, N.I.V.)

The message is simple. God has revealed His will infallibly by the Holy Spirit upon chosen men called prophets. It was by this means that the Scriptures came into existence. Those who wrote were inspired by God's Spirit and what they set down upon the written page was inspired by God. Therefore, although all the prophets have long since died, we have a totally reliable and wholly inspired Word of God in our hands. God still speaks to us therein as surely as He spoke by the mouth of the prophets:

"The holy scriptures are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:15-17)

The Word of God provided in this way carries to us the mind of God and all of the glorious attributes associated with His Holy Name. To resist the message and command of the Word of God is to resist God Himself. Indeed, it is to resist the Spirit of God in every sense of that word, including that broader meaning which we imply when we talk, for example, of the "spirit" of an agreement. This is how the Bible describes the resistance of the children of Israel to God's Word through the prophets:

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:57:04 AM Close
CONTINUATION

"Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: yet would they not give ear . . ." (Nehemiah 9:30)

"In all their affliction he (God) was afflicted and the angel of his presence saved them ... he bear them and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled and vexed his holy Spirit." (Isaiah 63:9-10)

"Ye stiffnecked . . . ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye." (Acts 7:51)

Clearly, it was not simply the naked power of God that the rebels resisted. They resisted the redeeming love and righteousness of God whether in His prophets or later in the Jesus Christ. They refused to humble themselves to serve God. This was the evil spirit of man contesting the Holy Spirit of God.

4. Miracles and Wonders

There were times, of course, when the powerful nature of the Spirit of God was made manifest. From time to time God intervened openly and worked wonders among men. This aspect of the Spirit whether in goodness or in severity is unmistakable:

"Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked him at the sea, even at the Red Sea. Nevertheless he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known." (Psalm 106:7-8)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 12:58:29 AM Close
CONTINUATION

"The power of the Lord was present to heal them. And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy . . . He said to the sick of the palsy ... Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. And immediately he rose up" (Luke 5:17-25)

"Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God." (Romans 15:19)
The miracles of the Lord Jesus Christ in stilling the storm on Galilee, in causing miraculous catches of fish, in feeding many thousands at one time, and in healings of every kind, were strongly reminiscent of the various works of God in the Old Testament. It was as though the activity of the Spirit of God was focused, as never before on earth, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This was equally true of the words he spoke. His words and miracles were wonderfully married together. It was as though the Lord God had brought near to man in His Son everything He had to say in a most compassionate and powerful form. The Spirit had worked God's will in ages past, sometimes in signs and wonders, fearful and gracious; sometimes in word or vision or dream; but now, in Jesus Christ, the Lord God provided a wondrous and unforgettable manifestation, a Son filled with all the radiance of God's Word and in himself a reflection of all that He spoke, and endued with such power and authority as to extend the gracious Word in saving acts of almost unbelievable kindness. In all of this the mind and will of God were made known in such a way as to redeem the destitute, and to give hope to those who were bowed down with sin, or oppressed by the man-made traditions and restrictions which made life intolerable for the ordinary man in the days of Jesus Christ.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:00:16 AM Close
CONTINUATION

Jesus Christ's words relieved the desolate and despairing. His deeds brought spontaneous praise to their lips. His devoted death provided the release from their sins. God had spoken through all of these aspects of the life of Jesus Christ. Then at Calvary and in the tomb in the garden, when all seemed to have been lost, the Lord moved again by His Spirit:

"By his power God raised the Lord from the dead." (1 Corinthians 6:14, N.I.V.)
Thus the power of God, exercised in love and righteousness, visited the silent sepulcher and brought forth the only begotten Son to receive glorious and unending life:

"God ... raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory." (1 Peter 1:21)

"His Son Jesus Christ our Lord . . . was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." (Romans 1:3-4)

"According to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand and hath put all things under his feet." (Ephesians 1:1 9-22)

"(Christ) is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (1 Peter 3:22)

5. God's Power to Raise the Dead

The exaltation of Jesus Christ is a source of great joy and praise for believers. Jesus Christ is the Savior and Jesus Christ is the Lord. Moreover, God who had raised His Son from the dead by the power of His Spirit continued His will and purpose in him after his resurrection:
"Of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen." (Acts 1:1,2)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:01:49 AM Close
CONTINUATION

"This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit . . ." (Acts 2:32-33)

The exalted Christ is empowered and authorized by the Spirit of God. The life which Jesus now lives is a life of the Spirit; he has been "quickened by the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:18) so that now, in the fullest sense, he lives by the Spirit. His mortality has been clothed upon with immortality. It has been swallowed up by life. Furthermore, the Lord Jesus is now "a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45, R.V.):

"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." (John 5:21)

The Lord Jesus Christ is now the source of life everlasting for all who truly believe in him. He is "the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29), the One who is to bring "many sons to glory", and is "the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 2:10 and 5:9). It is impossible to over-estimate the significance of the present standing and office of the Lord Jesus Christ as Son of God. God has bestowed immortality upon him and given him the power to grant immortality to others.

This is the glorious message of the New Testament. In Jesus Christ there is not only the promise of eternal salvation; he is the actual Forerunner, the one who has arrived, and has himself attained to immortality. This is the unshakable assurance for all who come to God by him. Jesus Christ is truly the Savior granted to us by God. This is the pinnacle of the work of the Lord God by His Holy Spirit: prophesied in old time by the holy prophets and brought to perfection in the birth, life, death, resurrection and exaltation of Jesus Christ our Lord.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:02:53 AM Close
CONTINUATION

6. Apostles Empowered by the Spirit

Therefore, the Gospel is now proclaimed "in his name", and the progress of the message of salvation on earth is now under his care. The apostles were sent to proclaim this good news. And they were directly empowered by the Spirit of God in Jesus Christ so that the words they were to speak and the wonders they were to perform would be integral parts of the one message of God made known in Jesus Christ:

"Having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles." (Acts 2:33,43)

"By the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth . . . Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:10,12)

To resist the mission of Jesus Christ by the apostles was to resist Jesus Christ: any who resisted were resisting the Holy Spirit as did their Old Testament counterparts (Isaiah 63:10 and Acts 7:51). The Jewish authorities who opposed the development of the Gospel were "against the Lord, and against his Christ" (Acts 4:26). Saul of Tarsus, who later became the beloved apostle Paul, bitterly persecuted the early believers but, when challenged by Jesus on the way to Damascus, was asked by Christ:

"Why persecutest thou me?" (Acts 9:4).

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:03:59 AM Close
CONTINUATION

7. The Word and the Spirit

Those, on the other hand, who believed were submissive to the Spirit's message and thereby to the Lord Jesus Christ and his Father. The word of the Spirit convicted their hearts, bringing repentance and the hope of everlasting life. In the New Testament particularly, this message, the glad tidings of "the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 8:12), is plainly related to the Word and the Spirit:

"The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,' that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ." (Romans 10:8,17, N.I.V)

"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:3,5)

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever . . . And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:23-25)

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I (Jesus) speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63)

"Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh . . . God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." (Galatians 5:16-17; 6:7-8)

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." (Galatians 5:22)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:05:14 AM Close
CONTINUATION

8. The Message of the Spirit

From these Scriptures it is evident that the way of salvation in Jesus Christ is the way of the Spirit. It is God's way. Salvation comes from God. The whole purpose and plan of salvation and its execution are of God. Man was altogether impotent and sterile. There was no goodness in him. God has made compassionate and gracious provision in Jesus Christ. God's will was brought into action by His Spirit. None of this is known other than by the Word of God which is the message of the Spirit:

"Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. "(Matthew 13:43)

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Revelation 2:7)

The message of salvation is the power of God (Romans 1:16) which brings man into contact with the mind of God, the Spirit of God. An entirely new force enters into his life when he willingly receives the Word of God. Meekness in receiving the Word leads to faith. The Word illumines the mind and understanding, and commences a process of change which leads to repentance and conversion.

God's Word written on the heart of man in this way by believing the written message in the Bible is said to be: "WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART." (2 Corinthians 3:3)

This is a marvelous happening. It is truly the work of the Spirit of God engendered by a faithful acceptance of the glad tidings of the Gospel. At the beginning of human history Eve's mind had been polluted by the words of the serpent. They were words which spelt sin and death. The way of God is to teach man anew. The mind has to be redeemed from mere human, fleshly thinking. The thinking of God has to replace it.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:06:51 AM Close
CONTINUATION

"Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2)

The Word of the Gospel is designed for this process. It is a seed which will bear spiritual fruit. The man who receives it into his heart will be caught up in the floodtide of God's saving love in the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

A part of this on-sweeping work of God is to assure us of the care of God and of Christ for those who believe and seek to obey. This is what the Gospel is all about; it is designed to bring us to God through Jesus Christ:

"Come unto God by him (Jesus)." (Hebrews 7:19,25)

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you." (James 4:8)

We are assured of God's care and the shelter of Jesus Christ during our life of pilgrimage as we wait for the day of the Kingdom of God.

9. The Power of Prayer

Do we really obtain help by prayer? But, of course, God responds to our need. Prayer is not a substitute for the strength to be drawn from the Word of God. Prayer works with that Word of faith. Indeed, it is when we know the will and way of God from His Word that we discover the need for prayer in order that we might not enter into temptation. Prayer in its upward life counteracts the downward drag of our sinful natures. We need every source of help and sometimes we need it urgently. The reservoir of the Word of God in the mind, the mind of Jesus Christ dwelling in us richly, will always afford counsel and strength, because it is designed for that very purpose. Nothing could illustrate this more clearly than the manner in which Christ dispelled the temptations of the wilderness.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:07:54 AM Close
CONTINUATION

The records of the temptation of Jesus Christ are to be found in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 where the three-fold assault on his Sonship was made in the form of three questions, each of which appealed to self-will and would have denied the will of God had they been successful. The Lord Jesus found his replies, and the strength to make them, in his understanding of and reliance on the written Word of his Father in the Old Testament. Each temptation was rebutted with the words: "it is written", followed by the appropriate words of Scripture. "The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17) pierced the temptation at its heart and ensured the victory of Christ.

Even so, we must have the armor of prayer. Prayer was the Lord's refuge and comfort. It was a source of great blessing for him. If we faithfully ask God for help in our battle against sin, it will always be forthcoming:

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:16)

"So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and l will not fear what man shall do unto me." (Hebrews 13:6)

THE BELIEVER WHO PASSES INTO THE FAMILY OF GOD BY FAITH AND BAPTISM BECOMES A SON TO BE CARED FOR IN EVERY WAY: TO BE CHASTISED FROM TIME TO TIME, TO BE LED IN PATHS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE, AND TO BE BLESSED WITH STRENGTH FROM GOD IN THE LIFE TO BE LIVED AS HE SUBMITS TO THE YOKE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. FROM MORNING TO NIGHT, FROM DAY TO DAY, A WHOLE LIFE LONG HE HEARS THE WORD OF THE FATHER:

"I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."(Hebrews 13:5)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:09:18 AM Close
CONTINUATION

10. Holy Spirit Gifts

Shortly before he ascended to heaven the Lord Jesus Christ made this promise to his apostles:
"Ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me."(Acts 1:8)

This promise was fulfilled in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit was poured down from heaven and forthwith the apostles witnessed openly in the city. A huge assembly of Jews from Palestine, Mediterranean lands and the Middle East flocked to hear, "EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE" (Acts 2:6), the wonderful works of God proclaimed as never before. Everyone was amazed.

Peter explained that he and his fellow apostles were proclaiming the message given to them by the power of the Holy Spirit, and that their ability to do so in tongues intelligible to their hearers had also been bestowed by the same Spirit:

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he (Christ) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (Acts 2:33)

Peter repeated this same explanation when he later wrote a letter to believers concerning "the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven." (1 Peter 1:1 2)

We are therefore assured that the message of the apostles (called the "apostles' doctrine", Acts 2:42) was precisely and only that which the Father and the Son wished to declare. Furthermore, THEIR MESSAGE WAS ATTESTED BY SPEAKING IN A VARIETY OF LANGUAGES, and by many signs and wonders-miracles of healing and of raising the dead in the name of Christ (see Acts 2:43; 3:4-7).

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:10:33 AM Close
CONTINUATION

Groups of believers in widely separated places needed constant help in order to preserve the faith they had espoused, and to "grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:18). It was physically impossible for the apostles to spend long periods in each place, although they clearly traveled ceaselessly in their labors for Christ. There was as yet no New Testament from which the whole of the apostles' message might be read and related to the Old Testament which was already in very wide circulation. The inspired written accounts of the Gospel writers and the special letters to individual congregations and individuals came into existence in the first century, for the most part before AD 70, and these--or copies of them--would quickly be known over a wide area. Moreover these writings were themselves a part of Scripture given by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 3:15,16).

11. Special Powers

But how was the time-gap between the spoken message of the apostles and the divinely given account in writing to be bridged? The Holy Spirit was the means used by the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to the apostles, certain other persons were given special powers which were designed to support the believers in the various congregations. These persons were prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4:11), and the widespread gifts were those described as follows:

"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues . . . (1 Corinthians 12:8-10)

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:11:40 AM Close
CONTINUATION

By this means members of each congregation or ecclesia were equipped with gifts to help them exercise functions for the instruction, correction, exhortation and public witness of the group. No one had all of the gifts and the gifted members were therefore made dependent on one another for the total work. NONE OF THE GIFTS PROVIDED FOR ONE MEMBER TO PASS ON GIFTS TO OTHER MEMBERS. ONLY THE APOSTLES WERE ABLE TO DO THIS (see Acts 8:14-18).

We do not know precisely when the bestowal and operation of the gifts ceased to happen, but it was probably some time after the death of the last surviving apostle. That they would so cease is provided for in the words of the Spirit by Paul: "WHETHER THERE BE PROPHECIES, THEY SHALL FAIL; WHETHER THERE BE TONGUES, THEY SHALL CEASE; WHETHER THERE BE KNOWLEDGE, IT SHALL VANISH AWAY" (1 Corinthians 13:8). Moreover, the cessation of these gifts is coupled with the survival of three principal virtues: "But now abideth faith, hope and love, these three" (1 Corinthians 13:13, R.V.). Faith and hope will give place to reality and fulfillment at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the end of the First Century the New Testament had been completed and became available for all to read as the circulation and collation of the twenty-seven individual books gradually took place. In this way all of the ecclesias would have available to them the full accounts of the life of Jesus Christ together with the ministry and letters of the apostles. It is significant that God did not inspire any writings after the end of the first century. BY THIS TIME, THEREFORE, THE GIFTS MAY HAVE COMMENCED TO FADE. From non-Biblical sources we learn that during the second century men arose who merely simulated possession of the gifts, evidence in itself that the true gifts were no longer widespread.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:13:30 AM Close
CONTINUATION

12. Holy Spirit Gifts Today?

From time to time throughout the following centuries there have been groups claiming that once again the gifts were available to men. IN MODERN TIMES THE PENTECOSTAL AND CHARISMATIC MOVEMENTS HAVE MADE SUCH CLAIMS. SPEAKING WITH TONGUES IS THE GIFT WHICH EXCEEDS ALL OTHERS IN CLAIMS OF THIS KIND. Rarely is it claimed as an ability to speak foreign languages in the manner of the apostles (see Acts 2:4,6,11). Instead it is said that those concerned are given ecstatic utterance which they do not themselves understand but have to depend on others to provide the interpretation.

For the most part this manifestation is made known in meetings of committed members of the groups concerned. It is not used as a principal means for preaching the Gospel as they see it, and this is contrary to the direct instruction and practice laid down in Scripture (1 Corinthians 14:22-25). Indeed, there is no evidence whatsoever that the modern phenomenon is in any way related to the gift of tongues as described in the New Testament. Nor is it unique to "Christian" groups. The same occurrences are to be found amongst members of eastern religions and some others. WE BELIEVE THAT THE PHENOMENON ARISES FROM "RELIGIOUS EXCITATION", AN EMOTIONAL STATE OF MIND, AND NOT FROM ANY ACTION BY GOD THROUGH HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

Similar considerations arise about the supposed "GIFT OF HEALING". Healings wrought by the apostles were never carried out at "HEALING MEETINGS". There was no religious service, no emotional fervor produced by hymn-singing and preaching, but instead direct and positive healing in the open, on the spot, for all to see; or in private by an apostle (see Acts 3:1-10 and 9:36-41). These miracles followed the pattern of the healings of the Lord Jesus Christ. For the most part, the Lord healed by a touch or by the spoken word and the results were evident.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:15:10 AM Close
CONTINUATION

Both the procedures and the results of modern healings are widely different from those of New Testament times. There are many failures and often a lack of permanence in the improvement achieved. Such was not the case with the apostles. In those days, a man who had never walked was healed in an instant and could run for joy (Acts 3:1-10). A dead woman was restored to life by the quiet prayer of one apostle and his spoken word to the corpse (Acts 9:36-41). Healers of today belong to non-Christian groups, Spiritualists, and others as well as Charismatic. The Holy Spirit cannot be the common factor. It is much more likely to be a result of the power of the mind of the healer upon the mind and will of the person who has come to be healed. Whatever may prove to be the explanation, a far more basic inquiry must be conducted into the claims of those who profess to be moved by the Spirit.

13. Holy Spirit Gifts and the Second Coming

It is sometimes claimed that we should expect a renewed outpouring of Spirit gifts before the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is said that as the Spirit gifts were a sign when Jesus came the first time, so they will be once more before his second coming. The verses in Joel 2:28-32 are quoted to substantiate this claim.

If we assume for purposes of discussion that the argument is a sound one, how would we expect the gifts to come? By Charismatic movements such as are about today? If so, why? If not, how? Although the verses in Joel were quoted by the Apostle Peter in support of the outpouring of Spirit gifts in his day, it is to be noted that they were not quoted before the outpouring took place but afterwards. Moreover, the bestowal of Spirit gifts did not precede the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; it came after his ascension to heaven.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:17:23 AM Close
CONTINUATION

If such an outpouring were to occur again, we would expect the pattern to be similar to that established on the first occasion. In other words, the outpouring would follow and not precede the second coming.

However, we do not need to theorize in this way. The Scriptures give us an insight into the work of the Spirit in the first century and in the "world to come (Christ's own words to describe the coming kingdom of God on earth, (Luke 18:29-30). THOSE WHO HAD SPIRIT GIFTS ARE DESCRIBED AS HAVING "TASTED . . . THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME" (Hebrews 6:5). SPIRIT GIFTS WERE BUT A FORETASTE OF THE POWERFUL WORK OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD WHEN CHRIST RETURNS IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY. At that time there will be the resurrection of the dead (1 Thessalonians 4:13-16); the saints will receive the gift of everlasting life (Matthew 25:31,46); Christ will reign over all the earth from Jerusalem and will be accompanied by the saints, who will be kings and priests (Zechariah 14:9; Revelation 5:10; 20:4; Psalm 2:6); the wicked will be powerfully rebuked (Psalm 2:5,9; Isaiah 11:3,4); the earth will become beautiful and fruitful (Isaiah 35:1,2; Psalm 72:1 6); it would seem that the physically afflicted will be healed (Isaiah 35:5,6); and countless other wonders will be worked by the Holy Spirit of God at the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ and his glorified saints.

14. The Test of Bible Teaching

The Bible provides us with a very positive test by which to determine the validity of the claims of those who say they are speaking or working by the direct influence of the Holy Spirit. The test does not question the conviction or sincerity of those concerned, and it does not question the subjective experiences which they are often said to have had. The test goes to the root of the matter: What is the doctrinal content of the message? Does it accord with Bible teaching?

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:18:55 AM Close
CONTINUATION

In other words, in our day, does the Gospel preached by, say, Charismatic, harmonize with the teachings of Jesus Christ and his apostles? It is for this reason that we are commanded to "try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Alongside this standard, the widespread evangelical movement is found to be woefully astray from Bible teaching. What they have to say about life after death, the devil, the Godhead and the Lord Jesus Christ, baptism and many other matters does not sound true. It is incredible that a community, if they are indeed truly gifted by the Spirit, could be basically at fault in this way, not in the beliefs of a few individuals amongst them, but in the message of the movement as a whole. When we examine carefully what is taking place, we discover that they place more stress on guidance by the Spirit than on the guidance in true teaching by the Word of God.

15. Guidance from God

The foregoing considerations lead us to examine another feature of those who claim possession of the Holy Spirit, namely, claims to special guidance by the Spirit. Decision making is said to be determined by the Spirit. Answers are said to be provided by the Spirit in one way or another. It is not simply claimed that everything is put to the Lord in prayer (a practice with which we would have no cavil), but rather that explicit replies are given. All kinds of coincidences and "evidences" are adduced in support of this way of decision making.

WE BELIEVE THAT THIS APPROACH ARISES FROM A MISTAKEN UNDERSTANDING OF BIBLE TEACHING. The root of the problem lies in an attitude to the authority of Scripture. The Bible is a book filled with guidance. Most of the questions of daily life are already fully answered within the pages of the Bible which is meant to be "a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path" (Psalm 11 9:105).

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:20:30 AM Close
CONTINUATION

The Book of Proverbs declares: "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life" (6:23). Prayerful and regular Bible reading ensures that our feels are shown the path in which we should walk. THE BIBLE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT'S BOOK OF GUIDANCE.

It is sometimes said, by those who claim that the Spirit gives them guidance, that such guidance is sought only where Scripture is silent. The writer's experience of several such claimants is that they seek guidance in areas where the Bible is quite clear in its teaching, and claim to be guided even when what they do is contrary to the direct teaching of the Word of God. In other words, "the Spirit" was made to over-ride the Word of God and this conflict of authority lies at the base of the error in approach to spiritual decision making.

The disciple is assured that "all things work together for good to them that love God" (Romans 8:28). The lives of true believers are in the Lord's hands, and we are to seek Him constantly in prayer for His blessings on our journey through life. He has not promised to reveal to us openly what we should do. Provided that we are following the instruction of the Word of God and prayerfully seek the Lord's blessing and help in fulfilling His commands, we know that His oversight will ensure that life's path will lead us in the steps of the Master, and bring us safely, if we continue in faith, to everlasting life at the return of Christ.

16. We must choose!

Choice is one of the key functions of the life of a disciple. He must constantly decide between the alternatives which present themselves in everyday living. His decisions should be based on the Word of the Bible. It is not a scripturally acceptable method to shrink from making spiritual choices by handing everything over to the Lord or by asking God for answers. Revelation in this way is not promised in the Bible.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:24:15 AM Close
CONTINUATION

We are expected to exercise our minds on the problems of life in the light of Bible teaching and in prayerful submission to God.

The Bible abounds in clear teaching which urges the believer to make the right choice based upon the principles set out in Scripture. For example:

"I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life." (Deuteronomy 30:19)

"Choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Joshua 24:15)

"Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies . . . What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose." (Psalm 25:8-10,12)

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

17. The Bible - Divine Instructor

The Word of God is the divine instructor of the mind and provides us with ample guidance on the everyday affairs of life. Therein is set forth clear teaching on the choices to be made in almost every aspect of Christian living? Moreover the Word of God is food for the mind and strengthens us in making the Christ-like choice. In other words, the Word of God tells us why as well as what we are to choose.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 1:26:00 AM Close
LAST PART

If we humbly accept the teaching of the Word and resolve to follow it, we can rightly seek the blessing of God in prayer. He has promised never to leave us or to forsake us. When our choice is difficult to resolve even with the Bible in hand and on the heart, our course is to commit our way to the Lord in prayer and, without expecting direct revelation from Him, proceed to do in faith that which we believe to be wise before Him. These simple guidelines are sufficient for the needs of life. Paul gave detailed tuition to disciples in his own time, many of whom had Spirit gifts, and concluded by saying:

"And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:32)

With Pray

Philip Puthusseriyathu

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kkbabumon   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 4:14:37 AM Close
Dear philip,

You could conveniently give the link of the souce from where you copied and pasted the above matter.

http://www.theonehope.org/readliterature.asp?ID=30

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kkbabumon   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 4:15:19 AM Close
http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/holysprt.htm
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : Varghese   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 9:09:43 AM Close
If postings are from outside sources, a website link is far better so that the original posters get their due credit. So if posting in complete, please acknowledge the source.

God Bless!

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 24 May 2005 9:39:00 PM Close
Hi, Philip,

I have a question for you. Are you trying to say that the crusades, convention etc are waste of money? Those who come to Jesus Christ in these conventions are not lead by holyspirit? People can stay in faith without holyspirit? Or Holy spirit is taken way from earth?

Honestly I want to get an answer.

With prayer,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 2:57:41 AM Close
Dear Sister Sunila

PLEASE READ IN FULL AND UNDERSTAND. KINDLY NOTE THAT, THIS IS NOT A STORY OR FALSE INFORMATION, YOU CAN ASK ANYONE I HAVE GIVEN THE DETAILS HERE, THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE;

“EXPERIENCE WILL TEACH US MORE LESSONS IN OUR CHRISTIAN LIFE ALSO”.

Before that; I must tell you about me, I am born and brought up from Brethren family, after my Baptism I started to go for outreach (like distribution of articles and other documents) meetings / other crusades etc. to many places in Kerala and other states. Also I used to play Congo Drums and was singing for Campus Crusade with Thiruvalla Team (also all other Christian churches).

From 1986 to 1994 I was in New Delhi and at that time I was in Pentecost Church (Sharon Church). At that time I was the man for playing Drums for all worship meetings and all other special meeting (Youth / Sunday-school etc.) for them, they all are clapping, dancing, and using their tongues for other types of words, which I cannot express or tell you. And the truth was, whenever I stop my drums playing, all the members and our Pastor also stop their all other activities, please tell me, is that the language they used was from the Heaven? If it is from the God then why they are stopping whenever the music is stopped. Also please note that, I was deeply praying to my god these periods that, “My God if this is True and Correct, then please allow me to do the same” and I attended so many meetings etc. but …………!

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 3:04:05 AM Close
CONTINUATION

I just tell one more thing, there was a Crusade meeting prepared for 10 days in Beersheba Complex, at Pathankot, Punjab by Br. P.G. Varghese (1991 or 1992), Br. P.G.V is asked me to join the team for Playing Drums (all the Main Team members are from USA (foreigners). Do you know that these days; more than 10,000 peoples are attended the meetings; every day more than one hour they are singing (with music), dancing, lifting up their hands and saying other languages and I only one person who is not able join with them and I cried so much time “God Please Help Me” But….. The only thing I understand, that was not from the God

Because I cannot understand the word they are using and I cannot understand what they are doing. Just dancing as per the rhythm which I used in the Drums.

When the meeting was finished; the main Member from the Team is asked one question to me; “Hi Brother, you are a good Drummer, but why don’t you join with us” you just playing Drums for somebody else;” I replied, No Brother I was praying my god if it is from God, then please allow me to join with them”.

I studied so much from the Pentecost, I cannot accept their worship; they are just coming together and singing, praying, telling testimony etc. IS THAT CALLED WORSHIP? No I am worshipping the LORD ALMIGHTY, for which you have to give him something special! For worship meeting they don’t not how to pray, praying God to their needs only, is it correct? Nobody will tell you the exact words from The Bible, all are telling the story of their own or any others, not from the Bible. Please note that my mother’s Uncle is the Founder (President) of IPC New Delhi, and I was attending their meetings also.

CONTINUED

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : philipputhusseriyathu   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 3:05:55 AM Close
CONTINUATION

I DON’T WANT TO STOP ANYTHING FROM THE
PENTECOST, BUT YOU SHOULD THINK IS THEY ARE DOING RIGHT OR WRONG.

After a long period I spend with “The Pentecost” I returned to my home as a “BRETHREN” .Because in these periods, the God is giving me the opportunity to study more from the Bible as well as the “True Worship” which I found only in “BRETHREN” and I can tell you that anywhere you cannot see such a worship as per the BIBLE.

AS A BRETHREN I CAN TELL YOU THAT “WE ALL ARE WORSHIPPING OUR GOD THE ALMIGHTY THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST” EXACTLY WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE”

MAY BE THE PEOPLES ARE DIFFERENT NATURE; BUT THE “WORD OF GOD” IS USED AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

NOW YOU CAN THINK ABOUT ME! YOU ARE A NEWCOMER IN THE PENTECOST AND I AM AN ELDER

I pray Our Lord Jesus Christ will help you to understand and study the Word of God exactly from the Bible. DON’T LOOK INTO OTHERS, JUST LOOK IN TO JESUS CHRIST.

WITH PRAY

PHILIP
PUTHUSSERIYATHU

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : evangelistnewdelhi   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 4:38:59 AM Close
Dear kkbabumon

Please don’t try to hurt anyone, kindly note that we all are copying from somebody and pasting it to another; for example; if you are speaking or writing the word of god; there may be a chance to repeat the word or sentence, may be the same sentence / subject can write / speak / hear from so many people, what can we do, only thing we can do is, just listen and improve our knowledge / memory, if somebody ask you about the topic you can also answer without any difficulty, We all of us are studying Word of God from the Bible and the thoughts can be same or different.

It is not an essay writing or something else. We all are writing about the Word of God. So it can be copied.

Anyway, Br. Philip was trying to produce the answer to Br. Jake, if it is copied from other site and pasted it here; he has done his duty, please look his answer is as per the Bible or NOT AND it is Correct OR NOT, if it is correct then what is the problem.

Thank you
Evangelist New Delhi

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 2:50:08 PM Close
Hi, Philip,
I am happy to see you. I read what you wrote. Those questions are not new to me. I answered them even to my brethren relatives. I accepted and received water baptism in a brotheren assembly. But i danced in holy spirit in IPC. On the baptism day I felt the presence of holy spirit while I was saying the testimony. I was shaking without control and I wasn,t able to say a word. But I controlled my self and said my testimony. Nobody forced me to marry anybody. One of my college hostel warden (a catholic nun) told me to pray for my husband. Actually she told me to join their convent to do the ministry. I prayed for my husband and till now I can say he is my life partner in evry sense. My father's sister, a brotheren, who was with me told me, see the pentacost people have holy spirit. You also pray for holy spirit. Because bible say ask anything in Jesus name, you will receive it. I prayed for the holy spirit. Every body saw me dancing in His presence, not once, many times, in different places. I can say Holy spirit is in earth and He is still changing so many broken hearts. Because I am one of them. I can feel the mighty God in my life every day. I can say I am living because of Him. I may be dead or mentally handicapped permanently with out Him.
Now let me come to you. Quote"you were playing drums for them. When you stopped playing drums they stop all activitie.You cried and prayed for Holy spirit. One of them came to you and talked to you.Why can't you join them.". Let me tell you. While playing drums you were watching them. Watching what they are doing, how they are doing and learning how it works, what are they saying etc. Is it true? I know the answer is yes. Satan will keep your physical eyes open and tell you that they stopped when you stopped playing drums and that they are doing is not from God.Why can't you say 'NO' to satan and tell him that you stopped playing drums and they stoped dancing and singing because Holy spirit lead the whole crusade that way. Do you agree with that. (next post)
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2005 3:04:27 PM Close
Hi, Philip, continuation fro the previos post.....

I do because I feel the control of Holy Spirit.
This is what you have to do next time. Don,t be head up and observe what is going on. Bow yourself i the presence of God. You must close your eyes and pray. Join them in singing and clapping hands with eyes closed.
Next quote" Worship meeting they don't know how to pray" I know they are doing right. They pray according to the Holy spirit lead them to pray.They are not praying purposely. They are not teaching God. Holy spirit is leading the worship meeting. One of them had prayed for the Lord supper. What is wrong in that.
I never critisize anybody's speach. Sometimes satan works on me too. Then I take control over myself and pray to God. Don't give me to Satan. Help me to come back to you. I pray and think about the critisism that satan brought in to my mind. Then it will be cleared. I talked about few brotherns in this net. That is true. That happened in front of my naked eyes.

Thankyou Philip for your post. I am sure you will worship God in Spirit like all other people did in front of your eyes. Let God bless you.

Love in Christ,

Sunila.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jean   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2005 6:03:25 PM Close
Interesting.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sam48   View Profile   Since : 2 Sep 2007 6:26:58 AM Close
First of all the correct spelling "Brethren" and nothing else.Up to seventies it was love from the heart that connected brothers in Christ as brethren
and now I am very sorry to say it is a mere tag only.Unless there is love nothing else can compensate it.
So better to be back to Bible and Brethren holding true Christian values.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page



Go to top of the page

All times are GMT -5 Hours
Forums Home ::
© 2018 Sansnet.com



HOME