KeralaBrethren.net
New User? Register Today!
Registered Users, LOGIN
What we believe (Eng) What we believe (Mal) About Us Contact Us
Forums Home General Forum Youth Forum Sisters Forum Archives (2005-2007) Archives (2001-2004)
Listing of Brides Listing of Grooms
Assemblies in Kerala Evangelists in India Instituitions in India
Christian Albums Christian Songs
Audio Sermons Bible Wallpapers Brethren Links KB History (Eng) KB History (Mal)

K E R A L A  B R E T H R E N
General Forum (2005 - 2007)

Forums Home ::
This Message Forum is to discuss spiritual topics only. Please avoid personal or assembly matters.
Let us use this facility for our spiritual enrichment and for bringing glory to our Lord almighty.
Webmasters reserve the right to delete any topic or posting partly or completely from this forum.
View Topics ::

Go to bottom of the page

# 00959 :  How far are we
Dear brethren in Christ,


There are lots of revival messages going on in our assemblies that this present generation and the younger generation has gone very much far away from the truth and faith held by our forefather and spiritual warriors, It is a question raised now by all spiritual older brethren in all the assemblies, it is also forecasted that the way the brethren assemblies are going nowadays , the chances of brethren assemblies existence in the future generation is very grim. For all those in the forum, in what ways are we going away from the true faith held by our forefathers, a very much serious issue to be thought upon. Often debates are going on this matter, we have to change according to the changes going on in the world is what the last answer is.It seems we have changed a lot due to the God given facilities . If it goes back away from us , we will come back again on to the knees again for the true faith and the spritual eagerness like our forefathers.

Let this subject be for our spiritual rejuvination.

Yours in Christ
nelnob1

Post by : nelnob1  View Profile    since : 15 Oct 2006


Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 15 Oct 2006 11:03:40 AM Close
Dear brother, "nelnob 1",

The substance of your comments is surely a matter of great concern and godly exercise to believers in the Lord Jesus everywhere. It is particularly so in the the U.K., where, during the reformation and subsequent spiritual conflicts, men and women of great faith and devotion to Christ, were prepared to suffer unto death in their commitment to the truth of God's Word.

Only this week, in conversation with a christian brother, we were discussing women taking part audibly in collective worship. He sought to defend it, and my response was to ask him a simple question, "Do you think that the Holy Spirit of God was unaware of what the world would be like in the 21st century, when He laid down the teaching of church order in the first epistle to the Corinthians, through the Apostle Paul?"

My unshakeable belief is that we must base all teaching and preaching on the Word of God. Anything that falls short, or goes beyond it, must be rejected. Alongside this and underpinning it must be individual and collective intercessory prayer, which God will surely answer.

Your brother in Christ,

John

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 15 Oct 2006 11:47:31 PM Close
Dear Br. John Miller,

Greetings to you in soon coming name of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ,


Though we stay in different parts of the world , thank you dear brother for responding to a serious issue rising up in our assemblies promptly. It is matter of continous prayer, we are a generation who look upon the just before generation and the way they guided us with respect to the guidance they recieved from thier parents biblically, but where have we gone wrong, In what aspects spiritually, this generation is being criticised continously that we are not following the path the forefathers were following, can we ever do so in this world which has changed entirely now.


Let us prayerfully sit before his presence and find an answer.


Yours in Christ
Nelnob1

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : observer   View Profile   Since : 16 Oct 2006 8:12:36 AM Close
I did find a verse, which I think is relevant to this discussion. We are asked to remember those who led and taught us (i.e. our forefathers
) to consider their conduct and imitate their faith.
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. (Hebrews 13:7)
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 16 Oct 2006 11:47:36 AM Close
“imitate their faith”
It says, imitate their faith and not imitate their culture. The root cause of the self-destruction of the Indian Brethren Assembly is the “elders” using there “superior” cultural qualities to determine who is and who is not a Christian. This is turning off many, especially the new generation. And if any group is imitating the faith of the Indian Brethren fathers, it is the ones leaving. Like the fathers who left a cultural focused version of Christianity (Mar Thoma Church, Syrian Orthodox Church, etc.) for a Christ focused form of Christianity (early Brethren Indian Assembly), this new generation are leaving the cultural focused Indian Brethren churches for Christ focused churches through out the world.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 16 Oct 2006 11:26:12 PM Close
Dear brethren in Christ,


Thanks one and all for participating in this forum, but my query still seems unaddressed. How far are we , where are we in respect to our forefathers, what has made us go far away from our old generation faith.Let us not put completley our lackness on the elders. Of course some are there but elders are appointed by God and they have to bide by the criteria the scriptures says . If not God will take that matter seriously, not we.


Let us prayerfully await a reply

Yours in Christ
nelnob1

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : babugeorge01   View Profile   Since : 16 Oct 2006 11:38:20 PM Close
Dear Nelnob1:

Let me try to give my opinions to the issue pointed out by you.

The pioneers of our like-precious faith were saved from idolatry / denominations. They were sent away from their homes, and were therefore people of little means, but of great faith.

God has sustained their legacy and we have so many believers, and so many assemblies, and so many sent out to serve the Lord.

However, for reasons I cannot explain, (but only guess), God also gave their posteriety material prosperiety. My guess why are

(i) our forefathers prayed for their generations that they would be endowed with that which they themselves lacked (material prosperiety)

(ii) God wanted to test the quality of our faith in giving us prosperiety.

PROSPERIETY has been the root cause for why we have drifted from our founding principles

...contd

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sudheer1   View Profile   Since : 16 Oct 2006 11:56:30 PM Close
Revival comes
- When your heart is pure (not touched by other things)

- When your hands are clean

- When u intercede for your selves and your fellow bretheren

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sudheer1   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 12:01:05 AM Close
I think your prosperity doesnt affect the revival.,

When revival floods there is no blockage to it unless there is a SIN in you

Prosperity is not sin as such

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : babugeorge01   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 12:13:08 AM Close
... contd

They LABOURED in Word and doctrine
We scarcely even read our bibles, but only gloat in Greek and Hebrew meanings.

They MEMORIZED Scripture 'as though' it was essential to salvation
We are 'pathetic' with Scripture in memory.

They preached the SIMPLE GOSPEL shamelessly on the streets.
We preach sophisticated sermons after comparing several commentaries in conferences with power-point slides.

After work, they took their bibles and went about visiting and encouraging the new born babes in Christ.
After work, we have TV.

They PRAYED when entering a home, they prayed before leaving a home, they prayed after returning home.
That is something we have lost altogether.

They insisted 100% ATTENDANCE to all the gathering of the saints.
We send our children to tuitions on the Lord's day morning.

To them, the SALVATION of their children was paramount.
To us, the MBA for our children is paramount.

... contd

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : babugeorge01   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 12:14:27 AM Close
They BEAT their children with the rod, in order to save their souls from hell.
We reason with our children.

They had clear lines distinguishing right and wrong.
We cannot distinguish right from wrong. We send our wives to work and earn, let our daughters wear pants, apply make up, bob their hair, and train them to build corporations rather than build homes. (And some of you may take this up from here to argue if this is right or wrong)

They dream, hope, and pray that their children will take up the Lord’s work.
We dream, hope, and pray that our children will get a green card in the USA.

They esteemed an evangelist and his work.
We treat our evangelists as our servants.

They were CONTENT with what they had.
We are INSATIABLE and slaves to PEER PRESSURE within the Assembly.

I do not claim to be above these, neither do I say that prosperity is sin. But the root cause has been prosperity, and our immaturity to handle it.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : sudheer1   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 2:14:10 AM Close
babugeorge01

I agree with u

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 2:32:22 AM Close
Dear brethren in christ,

Thanks everyone for your pariticipation, the main things are addressed already, and we are aware about our shortcomings, but can we at any time go to the good olden days of our spirtual warriors, if we fight individually, we will be left alone, or should we join the drifting waters keeping silent and praying for our spiritual rejuvination.


yours in Christ
nelnob1

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : josbr   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 2:48:19 AM Close
1 Kings 19 : 4,5

He (Elijah) requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

He said “I, even I only, am left”

But the Lord said “Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."

Things are not as gloomy in the brethren as made out. I indeed delight in some true men.

“But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.” Ps 16 :3

I disagree to accuse the brethren as in the posting by “btthomas” dt 16 Oct.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : beracha   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 3:52:23 AM Close
Is there anything wrong with brethren (and believers at large) as being made out in most of the postings here and elsewhere? Can material prosperity of the present generation be considered as a reward for the so called faithfulness of a past generation? If that is so, how will we explain the prosperity of some of the Muslim Countries in the World who are totally opposed to the Gospel? (Most of the believers who claim to be financially blessed got their prosperity from their employment / business in the Middle East and those contries are ruled, according to the believers, by ungodly enemies of the Gospel) Even within Kerala, the one community that has been progressing in almost all the spheres is Muslim. Are they reaping a harvest of blessing for the faithfulness of their Muslim forefathers? It is natural for anyone to interpret one’s own experiences to his or her advantage. Are we any different?

What I am trying to say is: the prosperity we are seeing these days is not confined to any particular group – all those who have gone to the Middle East, Europe and Americas etc have been financially benefited irrespective of their leanings towards any particular faith. The believers attribute it to the so called faithfulness of their forefathers. But those who went to the Gulf, USA, and Canada etc who don’t have any believing forefathers also were successful economically. Economic progress is a natural outcome of a wise selection of employment or business. Opportunity for making money was available in the Gulf Countries etc and whoever went there made money whether they were Catholics, Jacobites, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Brethren, Pentecostals, Hindus or Muslims!!

Contd...

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : beracha   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 3:54:13 AM Close
Another observation I may make is:

Godly and ungodly co-exist in all the ages. None of the ages are completely good or totally bad. See Revelations 2 & 3. All those seven churches existed at the same age and see their diverse spiritual condition!!!. I believe, in any Assembly we have members who could easily be classified and put in any one of the seven churches of Rev 2 & 3 – and this is true of all the ages. A discerning observer cannot fail to see it.

The Preacher of old must have also been faced with a situation similar to what we are facing and would have heard almost same comments and I hope that’s why he wrote:

ECC 7:10 Do not say, "Why were the old days better than these?" For it is not wise to ask such questions.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 5:06:00 AM Close
Dear Br/Sr Beracha,


Let us not take the world around us, the world around us can be blessed by satan also.We are blessed by God in all circumstances , if we go through the history of Brethren assemblies in Kerala , entirely we have a different view, our forefathers left everything for God's glory, they were rich and well to do off basically but for the true faith they got through the living word of God and how the Holy Spirit led them, they left everything and thats why we were called verpettu viswasikal or verpadukar. And it is of no doubt we have been spiritually blessed because of thier prayers and thier true faith they had in our eternal God. And with the increment in our status of our life and prosperity, we classify brethren among ourselves, as converts and new brethren, with jobs,and status, which has become a regular word among our midst. And it is not going to decrease. And achieving souls to his kingdom seems decreased due to our lifestyle. Dear Br/Sr. Beracha we have to admit that somewhere we are going wrong and thank you very much for comments . May God bless us


Yours in Christ
nelnob1


Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : babugeorge01   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 5:30:55 AM Close
I would agree with beracha that we cannot claim our prosperity as the REWARD of God because of the sacrifice of our forefathers. That could be true of the OT, but 'blessings' in this church age is entirely spiritual.

Exactly as beracha pointed out, material prosperity is independent of one's 'religion'. However, every good and perfect gift is from above. We are not spiritually mature to handle our prosperity (including myself). If we were, then irrespective of prosperity, we would continue to be spiritual, and build on the foundations of our forefathers.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : babugeorge01   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 5:32:40 AM Close
My observations are not sweeping, but general. I believe God preservs his remenant, those that seek him faithfully. And we know them around us.

Babu

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : lemuelraj   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 5:53:06 AM Close
1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY.

2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Doctrinal and moral APOSTASY ("falling away" of 2 Thess 2) must come as prophesied. Brethren who love the Lord must depart from all such who "walk disorderly" (2 Thess 3:6).

Moses LemuelRaj

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 8:56:07 AM Close
In addition to the things that bro babugeorge correctly pointed out that have gone wrong among us brethren, let me add one more: we have lost love for the Lord and FOR ONE ANOTHER. I cannot judge how each individually love the Lord, but I can sense that we have no real love for the brethren. From this latter fact, one can indirectly make an good guess as to the former, namely love for the Lord.

- These days, you can be absent for a couple of weeks from church on Sundays and nobody will call you home to see if you are ok. And when you show up in church later, nobody will ask where you where for two weeks, becasue it is considered a violation of his/her privacy!! (And indeed there are some folks who would be very upset if an elder asked them about their whereabouts)

- If some kids have a problem, the parents will not tell anybody in church for prayers, since they fear people will use it againt their children, come wedding time. What heights we have fallen, if we cannot trust our own fellow believers with our personal issues?

- I knew of one instance where, the boy in a very spiritual brethren family fell under the influence of drugs. The Lord was merciful to the family and delivered the boy from his habits, however, the folks in the church were not that merciful. Even years later all this happened, some people in the church still refer to the boy as "the drug addict" and in passing reference to his parents as "the drug addicts parents"!!!

The epistle of John has a lot of black and white statements in it, sometimes hard to understand. But when John says in I John 4: 20: 20 "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? ", I feel we brethren have lost the love for the Lord.

How far we have fallen from the Lord who washed His disciples feet out of love!! Instead of washing one anothers feet in love, we destroy each other. May God instill His love among us.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 17 Oct 2006 9:19:09 AM Close
Dear Brethren,

Brother Beracha's contributions should be considered carefully, because they are very important. If we attempt to make material prosperity some kind of indicator of spiritual blessing we ere greatly. God may, in His infinite wisdom, entrust some of His people with a measure of wealth. He may, on the other hand, order very straightened circumstances to be the lot of the most devoted of His saints. These are His ways which are unsearchable as far as we are concerned.

We should remember that Satan has the power to bestow wealth and position on his followers. Did he not offer such to our Lord Jesus in the temptations? History is littered with rich, powerful men who had no knowledge of God. They all had one solemn end!

One thing is certain, and it is this: God alone can bless man. He does this from one starting point, whether a man or woman is rich or poor, famous or unknown, black or white, educated or uneducated, young or old: the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus. In Christ, all our blessing is complete, and He must be the centre of all our riches. If he is not, what we might think are blessings may turn out to be a curse!

To go back to the beginning of this thread, we should pray for spiritual revival, particularly in our own places. We must also remember that in these last days a great harvest of souls is being brought into God's family in the most unlikely places and in the most hostile circumstances.

Your brother in Christ,

John

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 18 Oct 2006 8:36:35 AM Close
in one of my previous postings too i had mentioned the importance of fellowshiping one with another,apart from just meeting on a sunday,shake hands with each other, and then to be seen only weeks later.i remeber,being part of a small assembly where we used to meet/ visit each other and spend time dicussing about spiritual and family issues,a real time of sharing.to day our material prosperity has built erected such huge invisible obstructions, that we simply feel its a waste of time,below our dignity,visiting a fellow brother.only when there is real christian warmth amidst fellow believers,can there be revival, just as we cannot expect real love to grow between wife and husband unless they spend and share time with each other, and the most important quiet time with god every day,meditating from his word can really provide essential ingradient(warmth) for us to share the same with other fellow brethren.our forefathers did not have expensive clothes, automobiles,or fat bank balances,yet they were a happy lot.
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : boby1   View Profile   Since : 18 Oct 2006 10:40:24 AM Close
I think that the major problem with brethren is that they have a lot of activities outside the local assembly. The fellowship within the assembly is not a concern, even for the elders. They have bible colleges, lot of books to publish and conventions to preach. Then where is the time to visit the poor believer in the local assembly?
Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 19 Oct 2006 1:03:04 AM Close
Dear brethren in Christ

To all dear brethren who participated in the forum,


We are reaching no where with our discussions, yet the yes and noes of our discussion makes us aware that we blame each others for the deviation that has taken place, the young ones blame the elder ones for not showing the proper way and the elder ones blame the younger one for choosing thier own way. Let us be submissive to each other in Chritian love. When Jesus christ showed the simplicity by the washing the feet of his own disciples, what ever may be our Job, our education, our financial assets,our personality, our talents let it be for Gods glory and not an instrument to differentiate spiritual born again believers. Let the name of our Almighty God be glorified


Yours in Christ
nelnob1

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : jamesjohn   View Profile   Since : 19 Oct 2006 11:19:43 AM Close
Dear Bros and sis'

It has been encouraging reading all your comments. I believe I am in the company of those who 'hunger and thirst after righteousness'. Surely such are blessed of the Lord. To answer the cry 'How far are we', we need to look into the perfect mirror the Word of God to understand ourselves. To see our own condition there can be no better place. This may be a ongoing process in each of our lives. Nevertheless, we need to make a sincere and concerted effort in this direction. I am reminded about Daniel and Nehemiah. How in a difficult situation they turned to the Lord in mourning (fasting) and repentance. They were so full of this mourning that the King could see there was something wrong with Nehemiah. May our Lord give us this spirit of mourning for the spiritual condition that is prevalent.
I too believe materialism has caused us to drift from our Lord. We see this from the word. In the parable of the sower, we see the thorns (cares of this world) chokes the word out. Worldliness is incompatible with Godliness. We see that in 1 John 2:15. Love of the world and love of the father cannot go together. Matt6:24 and Luk 16:13 says you cannot serve God and mammon. All revivals took place becuase the incumbents left one (world) and clung to the other (Lord). Even in the conquest of the promised land, God ordered that all uncleaness should be totally destroyed, for the children of Israel to live in fellowship with God and enjoy the blessing of God.
For us to say no the world is going to cost a lot. But to all those willing to tread this narrow and difficult path, God will give abundant grace. And will find it worthwhile. When we loose the world for Christ we will find what we lost was dung and what we found was more desireable that gold than fine gold.
"How far are we" is a definition of our problem. I would request the moderator to conclude on the problem definition once sufficient believers have had their say and after that direct this discussion to the solution.
love
jj

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : boby1   View Profile   Since : 23 Oct 2006 2:36:25 AM Close
Dear Nelnob1
Where Ananias, with Sapphira (Acts 5: 3) control the affairs of the church, the wicked man (1 Cor 5: 13) is in fellowship and Diotrephes, is the elder your efforts to be the moderator will not keep an assembly the bride without blemish as God desires (Ephe 5:27).
God acts only when you realize your sin and repent. The efforts to cover up sin saying that it is “blaming others” we can never expect a revival. First of all we must be blame less and then make sure that others who are in fellowship are also holy. The rest God will do.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : nelnob1   View Profile   Since : 25 Oct 2006 11:20:53 PM Close
Dear brethren in Christ,

Once again thanks one and all for contributing thier valuable opinions , let the Holy spirit give us enough spiritual wisdom to act accordingly in the days to come, many of the brethren in the forum wants me to close this thread , therefore let us unitedly pray for our Assembly holding on to the spiritual truth, which ever part of the world we are. Dear Br. Boby1 has even warned that no need of a topic like this , God will keep his bride without blemish or spot, let us praise God for that. While Br.Boby1 started about Ananians and Saphhira, we read there was a valuable servant of God Peter who in the authority questioned about thier shortcomings/negligence and the consequences which is an example to all, we should examine that also, nowadays we are reluctant to listen if some of our dear elders points out where we are wrong, and often we justify our stand and try to defend ourselves. As Br. Boby1 commented let each one of us be blameless and then lets us make sure that other who are in fellowship are also holy, and lets also admit that we have some or other shortcomings. If each one of us admit our shortcomings before God and humble and submit ourselves in Christian love, we hope that there will be a solution.


Thanks everyone for participating and and lets continue in Prayer. And I would like to close this thread with your permissions.

Yours in Christ
nelnob1

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page



Go to top of the page

All times are GMT -5 Hours
Forums Home ::
© 2018 Sansnet.com



HOME