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View Topics :: :: Post new topic Youth Forum: Speaking in Tongues As Taught in 1 Corinthians

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# 00099 :  Speaking in Tongues As Taught in 1 Corinthians
Dear Readers, As I failed to see the ‘sharedconcept’ who challenged me using this forum for a debate on ‘speaking in tongues’ in Kerala, India, has not accepted my offer for a dialog. I asked Him to start a thread with title, “1 Corinthians 14,” to discuss about speaking in tongues. While refusing by invitation for a dialog, he continues to post on the thread “Other Tongue” about speaking in tongues. Therefore, I am starting this thread and ask him to join me for a dialog, rather than a debate, to understand the manifestations of gifts of the Holy Spirit, especially that of ‘speaking in tongues.’ Others may join, but please remember not to highjack the dialog. If it is done, I may ask the administrators to remove those posting. Shalom malekim!!!
Post by : George P. Koshy  View Profile    since : 23 Jan 2006

Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:46:56 PM Close
Rules For Dialogues On Doctrines:

The following rules are helpful in our dialogue, especially in making inferences, in studying scripture. I propose them as guidelines:

1. The Word of God, the Bible (the scriptures), is the final authority in our dialogue (discussions).
2. The infallibility, immutability, and inspiration of the Word of God are attributed only as it was originally given. Translations are used for our convenience and those that are “Formal Correspondence” are very reliable.
3. All inferences using deductive or inductive logic must be substantiated from the Word of God.
4. ‘The law of contrary’ and ‘the law of complements’ are not applicable to God and His works. They are applicable in other instances.
5. ‘The law of first occurrence,’ ‘the law of context,’ ‘the law of relevance,’ ‘the law of positive pattern,’ ‘the law of total mention,’ ‘the law of plain sense,’ ‘the laws of grammar,’ ‘the law of progressive mention,’ and ‘the law of distinction’ are applicable to make inferences.
6. We should not establish a “preferred doctrine” by discrediting another that is clearly stated in the Word of God.
7. “Leading questions” are not to be used to establish or discredit doctrines.

In a dialogue, we ask questions expecting answers in return. If the answers are not clear, then clarifications are required for a better understanding. Ignoring hem will not be considered as answers. In such cases, the corresponding points will be deemed resolved in favor of the scriptural arguments, placed earlier in the discussion.

We should differentiate between the doctrines in the Word of God and ‘preferred doctrines’ of men. We should differentiate between doctrinal and non-doctrinal subjects that are in the scriptures.

Shalom malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:50:16 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-1

The Pentecostals and Charismatics use 1 Corinthians 12-14 to justify their unscriptural position on speaking in tongues as a sign of spiritual superiority over other Christians who have the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and is joined to the body of Christ, who is in heaven as its glorified Head. In order to answer this argument, we need to have an outline of sound words as we read from the writings of Apostle Paul in 2 Timothy 1:13. On speaking in tongues, we should ask them what scriptures are they rely on their teaching on this subject. I expect to hear an answer to this question, especially from ‘sharedconcept.’

Let us look into 1 Corinthians to have “an outline of sound words” from Apostle Paul. This epistle is written not only to the local assembly of saints at Corinth, but also to all saints who are sanctified in Christ Jesus (1:2). The first chapter deals with division among that assembly, especially in the names of those who baptized the believers. Apostle Paul corrected this error and exhorted them to look to Jesus Christ, who saved them and not to those who baptized them. In chapter 2 we understand that the Corinthians were interested in wisdom and they were told that Christ is the wisdom of God. Chapter 3 deals with preaching of the gospel and the saved are joined together into a local assembly. The Corinthians were developing groups in the name of those who helped them to grow in the knowledge of God. This error was dealt with in that chapter. Chapter 4 deals with their error in stewardship and their desire to follow some men. Apostle Paul corrected them on this and told them to be his imitators and not of those who lead them away from Christ. In chapter 5 we read about the reason of writing this letter and that was the Corinthians sent Apostle Paul a letter asking his help in certain issues that affected them...

(To be cont. Part-2)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:52:11 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-2

...In Chapter 5, 6 and 7 he dealt with fornication, marriage and divorce, unmarried and widows, vocation (profession, work, or job), and re-marriage. Chapter 8 deals with things sacrificed to idols. Chapter 9 deals that which is to eat and drink, and Apostle Paul’s authority. This indicates that there were some who need to be corrected on these subjects, especially those who questioned his apostleship. Chapter 10 deals with the behavior of Corinthian Christians outside the Assembly, in the world. Especially they misused their Christian freedom to participate in the heathen temple activities (table of the demons) after partaking in the Lord’s Table. In the first part of chapter 11, Apostle Paul deals with the misuse of the headship of Christ in the local Assembly by the Corinthian saints. It starts with another exhortation to be his imitators as he is of Christ. Here, he made sure that the Corinthian know that while they are his imitators, they are actually imitating Christ, because he is imitating Christ. He ends this section of correcting the error related to the headship of Christ, by a succinct answer to be given to those who insist otherwise, “But if any one think to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor the assemblies of God.” (1 Corinthians 11:16). It was not just the assembly at Corinth, but it included all the ‘assemblies’ (plural) of God. He was so firm about the headship of Christ to His body that was formed on this earth on the Day of Pentecost. Remember, the Pentecostals and Charismatics do not consider their coming together on the first day of the week is not necessary for eating the Lord’s Supper, but it is to recount, show, and remind how better are they compared to others who are assembled with them.

(To be cont. Part-3)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:53:38 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-3

After correcting all these errors, apostle Paul goes into the errors that existed in the Assembly at Corinth, as practiced when they gathered together in one place. He started correcting them on the errors in the Lord’s Supper, especially in breaking of bread. In chapter 12 he dealt with the errors in spiritual manifestations in the assembly. Unfortunately, the Pentecostals and Charismatics teach that in the 21st century, Christians should practice those errors that apostle Paul asked the Corinthian believers not to practice. Apostle Paul reminded them and us that the spiritual manifestations are for the common benefit of the body of Christ and not for individuals to show off their gifts. The spiritual gifts are not to be shown as we chose or when we preferred. The example used by Paul is that of a human body. From his explanation, we know that when a child is born, that child is born with all the body parts functioning as it is intended for. Certain parts need to develop further, as one grows, but it still function as it should be at that time. No part has to wait for its time, a future one. Similarly, when a member is joined to Christ’s body, he/she need not wait for a future time for the enabling of its function. It is set and ready to function. Lack of understanding of this ability of the body of Christ and its parts compels the Pentecostals and Charismatics to propagate the falsification of scriptural teachings related to spiritual manifestation, gifts, in a believer. They think and teach that Christianity, true Christianity, is without life and is not connected to its Head, the glorified Christ in heaven. They think that the body of believers comprises the dead and living members. The ‘living’ are those with the Holy Spirit and the ‘dead’ are those without the Holy Spirit. What a grotesque concept of the body of Christ. We should have no part in such teachings. Apostle Paul didn’t. Let us be his imitators. We depend on the finished work of Christ.

(TBC, Part-4)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:55:23 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-4

Their teaching of having the baptism with the Holy Spirit as a second blessing at a later date after one is born from above and with water and of Spirit and entered into the kingdom as the children of God is a total misrepresentation of Lord Jesus Christ’s statement, “I will not leave you orphans…” (John 14:18). He will not leave us orphans, because He is coming to us and has provided the Holy Spirit as comforter (PARAKLHTE = One who stands by us as a comforter or advocate). We should not be fooled by this unscriptural rhetoric of Pentecostals and Charismatics. The only place the disciples were to wait for the Holy Spirit was at Jerusalem and they were to wait till the Day of Pentecost. If the Pentecostals and Charismatics want to wait for the Holy Spirit to come down again after Christ sent him, then they think that the Holy Spirit was taken away from this earth between the Day of Pentecost and present. Where do they find this unscriptural teaching? The Holy Spirit is to abide with us and in us. That is what we read in John 14:17. In the light of our Lord’s words, are we to assume that the Pentecostals and Charismatics do not have the promise of the Holy Spirit as Christ told His disciples? If so, are they born from above? They should read John 14, from the beginning to the end. Well, if they don’t have the Holy Spirit as the Comforter, as Christ said, then they wont understand what is written. They will fast and pray as the Pharisee in the parable, but got no peace that pass all understanding. They may not depend on the finished work of Christ; they may think that they have to work for it.

1 Corinthians 13 deals with gifts, especially its purpose and cessation after the completion of its intended purpose. The only way to continue to teach the unscriptural doctrine is to deny what is written in this chapter and this they do well.

(To be cont. Part-5)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:57:08 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-5

In 1 Corinthians 14 we read about the errors related to the practice of speaking and praying in tongues. Apostle Paul corrected this error by citing their own arguments and showed the inadequacy of their arguments. The Pentecostals and Charismatics teach that they should continue in and repeat those errors and not to follow what the Holy Spirit taught the Corinthians. The Corinthians did speak in tongues without considering the edification of others in the Assembly. They did it to show what they possessed to others. If they did not have anything, then they made some noise and claimed that they prayed to God and no one has to know about the content of their utterances, because it was between God and them. Apostle Paul, who spoke in tongues more than any of them (14:18) told them that speaking five words in a known language with his understanding to edify others is better than speaking ten thousand words in an unknown tongue (14:19). He also told the Corinthians that they should be grown up in mind, but babes in malice (14:20). He also told them that speaking in tongues are for a sign to the unbeliever and not for a believer (14:22). He also told them that the simple (unlearned) and unbelieving should admit the presence of God among the midst of the believers, by their speaking in five words of a known language with understanding. What ever is done, it should be for the edification of the saints and not for ‘show and tell.’

It is interesting to note that those who give importance to repeating the errors related to gifts and speaking in tongues are also proud to violate the next commandment of the Lord. This commandment of the Lord is written in 1 Corinthians 14:34-40, next to speaking and praying in tongues in the gathering of the saints in one place. It starts with, “Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says...

(To be cont. Part-6)

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2006 12:59:11 PM Close
Dear Readers, Part-6

...But if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shame for a woman to speak in assembly…THAT IT IS THE LORD’S COMANDMENT…” In the 21st century, who dominate the meetings of the Pentecostals and Charismatics? The answer is, women. In John 14 our Lord said it three times, one after another, ‘If you love me, keep my commandments.” Here is the Lord’s commandment and they violate it claiming that they are lead by the Holy Spirit that was send to guide them into all truth. This is nothing but travesty, a grotesque imitation with intent to ridicule, of the works of the Holy Spirit by the Pentecostals and Charismatics.

In 1 Corinthians 15 Apostle Paul corrected the Corinthians about their misunderstanding about the resurrection of those who are fallen asleep in Christ. In chapter 16 we read about the collection of money for the saints.

In this epistle we read about the errors that prevailed among the Christians in the time of Apostles at Corinth and how they were corrected. It is beyond our comprehension, why the modern day Pentecostals and Charismatics want to repeat those errors and try to discourage those who imitate Apostle Paul not to do so, but to follow them and practice their unscriptural ways.

Shalom malekim!!!

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